View Poll Results: Do you agree with ban on smoking inside cars with children?

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  • Yes - I like this ban

    36 38.71%
  • Yes - I like it, but age should be older than 8

    21 22.58%
  • No - I should be able to smoke wherever I want

    21 22.58%
  • other - please explain

    15 16.13%
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Thread: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

  1. #621
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    Re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    But a fetus is not a "person" until birth, so you can drink and smoke and use drugs up until that point while pregnant.
    Absolutely right. A fetus isn't a person. But after eons of women bringing conceptions to full term there is ample medical and scientific data, which shows that if a woman who has conceived chooses to drink, smoke, and use drugs up to the point of giving birth...the fetus, which might becomes a person at birth if it survives in the womb...could possibly be really ****ed up at birth.

    So obviously engaging in those behaviors during pregnancy should taken into consideration by women who has conceived and who "chooses" to bring a conception to full term. I believe that while some women might not make those considerations...most do.

  2. #622
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    Re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Absolutely right. A fetus isn't a person. But after eons of women bringing conceptions to full term there is ample medical and scientific data, which shows that if a woman who has conceived chooses to drink, smoke, and use drugs up to the point of giving birth...the fetus, which might becomes a person at birth if it survives in the womb...could possibly be really ****ed up at birth.

    So obviously engaging in those behaviors during pregnancy should taken into consideration by women who has conceived and who "chooses" to bring a conception to full term. I believe that while some women might not make those considerations...most do.
    But it is not a "person," so you can mess it up.

  3. #623
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    Re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    But it is not a "person," so you can mess it up.
    Absolutely. Anything is possible. But as you are well aware, that's not the norm. Women usually make sound choices in how they deal with their pregnancies....whether or not they choose to bring a fetus to full term.

  4. #624
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    Re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Absolutely. Anything is possible. But as you are well aware, that's not the norm. Women usually make sound choices in how they deal with their pregnancies....whether or not they choose to bring a fetus to full term.
    I got it, non-persons are basically punching bags, if you so desire. A fetus, a dog, whatever.

  5. #625
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    Re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    I got it, non-persons are basically punching bags, if you so desire. A fetus, a dog, whatever.
    that's your perception...and nothing related to reality or anything I stated.

  6. #626
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    Re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yes. Safety, as defined as the absence of risk, is unattainable; therefore we can only seek to minimize risk - not eliminate it. Even if you consider yourself as being exactly of median intelligence then half of the drivers that you share the roadway with are dumber than you are - that is a necessary risk.
    I would argue that accidents – which is what we are really talking about – are completely unnecessary; they don’t have to happen. It’s only through negligence that they happen. I’m sure you’d argue that many are just innocent mistakes; but an innocent mistake can result in someone’s death and be severely punished for it. Why do we punish people for making innocent mistakes? Because we really don’t completely believe that these ‘innocent mistakes’ are devoid of negligence. Thus, they are preventable. Thus, they are unnecessary.

    My point is… we do not need a law for every living thing in this country in order to create the delusion that we are going to even minimize harm to others. I grew up with both of my parents smoking everywhere: in the house (windows shut), in the car (windows shut), everywhere… I don’t know what effects this will have when I turn 80. If I get lung cancer will I blame my folks? NOPE! I have no certainty that if I got lung cancer from my parents’ smoking or from all the cars I’ve been around all my life. I consider myself to be extremely healthy at the ripe age of 51 despite my parents’ ignorance of smoking. We didn’t need laws back then, and I don’t think we need laws today. What we need is to get educated and make smart decision and stop expecting the government to do that for us.

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    Re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    A dog is a person?

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    Re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    A dog is a person?
    Not in the womb.

  9. #629
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    Re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by alsos View Post
    I would argue that accidents – which is what we are really talking about – are completely unnecessary; they don’t have to happen. It’s only through negligence that they happen. I’m sure you’d argue that many are just innocent mistakes; but an innocent mistake can result in someone’s death and be severely punished for it. Why do we punish people for making innocent mistakes? Because we really don’t completely believe that these ‘innocent mistakes’ are devoid of negligence. Thus, they are preventable. Thus, they are unnecessary.

    My point is… we do not need a law for every living thing in this country in order to create the delusion that we are going to even minimize harm to others. I grew up with both of my parents smoking everywhere: in the house (windows shut), in the car (windows shut), everywhere… I don’t know what effects this will have when I turn 80. If I get lung cancer will I blame my folks? NOPE! I have no certainty that if I got lung cancer from my parents’ smoking or from all the cars I’ve been around all my life. I consider myself to be extremely healthy at the ripe age of 51 despite my parents’ ignorance of smoking. We didn’t need laws back then, and I don’t think we need laws today. What we need is to get educated and make smart decision and stop expecting the government to do that for us.
    You can try to deny the harmful effects of second hand smoke all day long, but to no avail. MD passed this dopey law and may even choose to enforce it a bit - the nanny state is here to stay and will continue to increase its power at every opportunity.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #630
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    Re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    You can try to deny the harmful effects of second hand smoke all day long, but to no avail. MD passed this dopey law and may even choose to enforce it a bit - the nanny state is here to stay and will continue to increase its power at every opportunity.
    We should definitely enact this law in California. Although the economy is slowly on the mend here we could still use more money for beneficial programs, like child education and health, forest conservation, etc.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 01-09-14 at 12:04 PM.

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