View Poll Results: Do you agree with ban on smoking inside cars with children?

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  • Yes - I like this ban

    36 38.71%
  • Yes - I like it, but age should be older than 8

    21 22.58%
  • No - I should be able to smoke wherever I want

    21 22.58%
  • other - please explain

    15 16.13%
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Thread: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

  1. #481
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    re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    But you are ignoring the unintended consequences.
    Actually I'm not. Hence my use of the phrase "extraordinary cases." I'm sure you could imagine a scenario whereby the smoky home environment is so egregious that it at least equals the potential downside of being taken into child services.

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    re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Actually I'm not. Hence my use of the phrase "extraordinary cases." I'm sure you could imagine a scenario whereby the smoky home environment is so egregious that it at least equals the potential downside of being taken into child services.
    But how would you enforce this? Unless a friend or family member is in the home and turns the parents in for smoking, then this is completely unenforceable. The signs of internal damage are not seen by teachers and people outside of the home like the signs of physical abuse or other types of neglect.

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    re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I might suggest to those parents that they put the money they spend on cigarettes towards their children's future college education instead. Smoking ain't cheap, you know.
    So not only should these people be punished and fined for something that isn't illegal, doesn't impact others if done with some consideration (cracked window), the government should also dictate forced savings onto them?

    I'm sure that you'd support forced detention and re-training camps with hypnosis and brainwashing for smokers as well (and any other behaviors you don't agree with).

    Any freedom for any decisions left for people to make for themselves? Or should all this be the purview of Big Brother Government?

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    re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    But how would you enforce this? Unless a friend or family member is in the home and turns the parents in for smoking, then this is completely unenforceable. The signs of internal damage are not seen by teachers and people outside of the home like the signs of physical abuse or other types of neglect.
    What is the current mechanism for determining whether abuse is going on in the home?

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    re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    What is the current mechanism for determining whether abuse is going on in the home?
    Guessing.

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    re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    So not only should these people be punished and fined for something that isn't illegal,
    You can't fine and punish people for doing legal things. If the thing is illegal, then you can. QED.

    doesn't impact others if done with some consideration (cracked window)
    Smoker's fantasy.

    the government should also dictate forced savings onto them?
    No, I just have no sympathy for parents who lose money in fines when they're already blowing an astronomical amount of money on cigarettes. Their priorities are utterly screwed. In Maryland a pack of cigarettes costs $6.70 (at least that's what the internet tells me). Let's say for the sake of argument that both parents, between the two of them, go through a pack a day. Multiple $6.70 by every day the child is alive to 18 years of age and that comes out to be $44,019. That's half of college, right there. So don't talk to me about taking money from the poor parents with their children.

    I'm sure that you'd support forced detention and re-training camps with hypnosis and brainwashing for smokers as well (and any other behaviors you don't agree with).
    Yeah, sure. Don't forget "catapulted into the sun" while you're at it.

    Any freedom for any decisions left for people to make for themselves? Or should all this be the purview of Big Brother Government?
    If we were talking about people who make poor decisions for themselves you'd have a point there, but that's not what this thread is about.

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    re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    No, I just have no sympathy for parents who lose money in fines when they're already blowing an astronomical amount of money on cigarettes. Their priorities are utterly screwed. In Maryland a pack of cigarettes costs $6.70 (at least that's what the internet tells me). Let's say for the sake of argument that both parents, between the two of them, go through a pack a day. Multiple $6.70 by every day the child is alive to 18 years of age and that comes out to be $44,019. That's half of college, right there. So don't talk to me about taking money from the poor parents with their children.
    So ban cigarettes?

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    re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    If an asthmatic kid had to go to they hospital a couple of times....
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    But how would you enforce this? Unless a friend or family member is in the home and turns the parents in for smoking, then this is completely unenforceable. The signs of internal damage are not seen by teachers and people outside of the home like the signs of physical abuse or other types of neglect.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    If an asthmatic kid had to go to they hospital a couple of times....
    That's a good point. A kid repeatedly ending up in the hospital for falling down the stairs tends to raise a few eyebrows.

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    re: Smoking Illegal With Children In Car[W:501]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    You can't fine and punish people for doing legal things. If the thing is illegal, then you can. QED.



    Smoker's fantasy.



    No, I just have no sympathy for parents who lose money in fines when they're already blowing an astronomical amount of money on cigarettes. Their priorities are utterly screwed. In Maryland a pack of cigarettes costs $6.70 (at least that's what the internet tells me). Let's say for the sake of argument that both parents, between the two of them, go through a pack a day. Multiple $6.70 by every day the child is alive to 18 years of age and that comes out to be $44,019. That's half of college, right there. So don't talk to me about taking money from the poor parents with their children.



    Yeah, sure. Don't forget "catapulted into the sun" while you're at it.



    If we were talking about people who make poor decisions for themselves you'd have a point there, but that's not what this thread is about.
    Freedom would include the freedom to make what you view as poor choices, as well as being able to decide how to spend the money they earned, and not get punished for it.

    WRT cost, yeah, sure, if you go and buy the heavily (some would say over) taxed smokes over the counter. Rolling your own is much cheaper.

    It's not for you or the government to decide how one chooses to spend their money. This is beyond the proper role for government.

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