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There are 36 countries with better healthcare than the USA. What needs to happen?

What needs to change in US healthcare?

  • Complete overhaul, replacing old system with European-style universal healthcare.

    Votes: 25 65.8%

  • Partial overhaul, including expansion of Medicare, reworking of profit-based insurance system.

    Votes: 7 18.4%

  • Sparse overhaul, based around getting rid of the profit-based private insurance companies.

    Votes: 4 10.5%

  • Nothing needs to change, the US system is good the way it is.

    Votes: 2 5.3%
  • Total voters
    38
jimbo said:
The US having the latest and greatest has nothing to do with population, rather it has to do with the profit motive. The US health care consumer pays far more for the research than thepiggybackers.

To level the playing field, it might be a smart move for the US to tax health care products exported to other countries, and levy a tax on those coming here for the superior care.
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"California's stem cell agency was created in 2004 when 59% of California voters approved Proposition 71: the California Stem Cell Research and Cures Initiative. That initiative created the California Institute for Regenerative Medicine (CIRM) to fund stem cell research in the state.

Since then, the agency has funded research and new facilities and has trained high school, undergraduate and graduate students for careers in stem cell science.

Forecasts estimate we will have generated $286M in tax revenues by 2014."
http://www.cirm.ca.gov/our-progress/our-accomplishments

"The National Institutes of Health (NIH), a part of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services , is the nation’s medical research agency—making important discoveries that improve health and save lives.

NIH is the largest source of funding for medical research in the world, creating hundreds of thousands of high-quality jobs by funding thousands of scientists in universities and research institutions in every state across America and around the globe.....

Due in large measure to NIH research, a baby born in the United States today can expect to live to nearly age 79 — about three decades longer than one born in 1900. Not only are we living longer, but our quality of life is improving. Over the last quarter century, the proportion of older people with chronic disabilities has dropped by nearly one-third."
NIH - About NIH
 
Newman said:
irrelevant comparison i don' think that EU states care about the US health problems. But American s should think about their outdated values. I
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You mean like having a healthcare system that successfully treats more people than the entirety of the EU while at the same time allowing for far more choice than any of the EU countries offer? No thanks.
 
Ad_Captandum said:
I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain of the EU countries being too humble or sad. Isn't the stereotype that we're arrogant, pompous and self-righteous?
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Nope, the general stereotype is that your systems are restrictive and your societies blase and your people sort of grey and tired. Nannies and serfs.
 
Hard Truth said:
I prefer a system that does not include a role for insurance companies at all.
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So you just randomly dislike insurance that was consensually bought?
 
clownboy said:
Nope, the general stereotype is that your systems are restrictive and your societies blase and your people sort of grey and tired. Nannies and serfs.
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Ah, is that the general stereotype, or your vitriolic one?

Because I can play that game too: You Americans, in general, are fat, uneducated, ugly losers who fail at being a world power, and you should let the big boys handle it.

Ah, the blame game.
 
Rocketman said:
Bull****, Europeans are treated like cattle. My company has plants there too and the government has their hands in everything. No thank you.
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And some of us have lived in US. Here, you go into hospital for an op and come out when you're ready. In US, I watched small children brought in for ops on the day of the op and carried out the same day plainly in an unfit state...because people can't afford to pay. A friend who broke his arm, has medical insurance but the excess is 10000gbp. He's just a normal guy...who can afford that?
Such people go a travelling when they're young, but they all come back when they need care.
 
scatt said:
So you just randomly dislike insurance that was consensually bought?
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Are you aware of taxes consensually paid?

It's six and half a dozen how you pay, but isn't it important that everyone can access health care when they need it and regardless of level of income?
 
Ad_Captandum said:
Ah, is that the general stereotype, or your vitriolic one?

Because I can play that game too: You Americans, in general, are fat, uneducated, ugly losers who fail at being a world power, and you should let the big boys handle it.

Ah, the blame game.
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Unwad the undergear, YOU asked, I answered your question. And yes, it's the general stereotype of europeons. Add in that they are very annoying. Not saying it's true any more than your stereotypes.
 
Viv said:
And some of us have lived in US. Here, you go into hospital for an op and come out when you're ready. In US, I watched small children brought in for ops on the day of the op and carried out the same day plainly in an unfit state...because people can't afford to pay. A friend who broke his arm, has medical insurance but the excess is 10000gbp. He's just a normal guy...who can afford that?
Such people go a travelling when they're young, but they all come back when they need care.
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And I have fellow employees in Canada and England who can barely feed their families because of the ridiculous taxes and laws they must obey. again no thank you.
 
Viv said:
And some of us have lived in US. Here, you go into hospital for an op and come out when you're ready. In US, I watched small children brought in for ops on the day of the op and carried out the same day plainly in an unfit state...because people can't afford to pay. A friend who broke his arm, has medical insurance but the excess is 10000gbp. He's just a normal guy...who can afford that?
Such people go a travelling when they're young, but they all come back when they need care.
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That's nice, and I'm glad you like your system. We liked ours too, before Obama and the congress critters got ahold of it. Yes, just as you have complaints about some of the particulars of yours, we had some complaints about the particulars of ours. But overall...well, you get the drift.
 
Rocketman said:
And I have fellow employees in Canada and England who can barely feed their families because of the ridiculous taxes and laws they must obey. again no thank you.
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No, you don't. You know full well that our progressive tax system actually taxes the poor less than most US states. So, you're talking utter garbage.
 
Rocketman said:
And I have fellow employees in Canada and England who can barely feed their families because of the ridiculous taxes and laws they must obey. again no thank you.
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I can't speak for Canada and there are some differences in situation between England and Scotland due to Scottish devolved Government running rings around the UK Government, but the current economic situation and levels of taxation are not really dictated by funding the National Health Service.
 
Ad_Captandum said:
No, you don't. You know full well that our progressive tax system actually taxes the poor less than most US states. So, you're talking utter garbage.
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the garbage is you think everyone should pay 50+% in federal taxes so some crackhead can have free healthcare
 
clownboy said:
That's nice, and I'm glad you like your system. We liked ours too, before Obama and the congress critters got ahold of it. Yes, just as you have complaints about some of the particulars of yours, we had some complaints about the particulars of ours. But overall...well, you get the drift.
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I don't have complaints about ours.
 
Viv said:
I can't speak for Canada and there are some differences in situation between England and Scotland due to Scottish devolved Government running rings around the UK Government, but the current economic situation and levels of taxation are not really dictated by funding the National Health Service.
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it does in Canada and I am sure it does there as well, how else do you think it is paid for? fairy dust?
 
Viv said:
Are you aware of taxes consensually paid?

It's six and half a dozen how you pay, but isn't it important that everyone can access health care when they need it and regardless of level of income?
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They are only consensual if there is a choice to not do it (choice meaning an actual choice not a do this or I will lock you up "choice"). If the option not do it is not there, which is today's state taxation, there is no consent.

It is important for everyone to be able to possibly access a good or service without state interference. Your attachment to this good or service that is healthcare is very emotional and you would not apply it to things you do not have an emotional attachment to like a yacht for everyone. The problem with trying to justify what you emotionally like is emotions are rarely logical. Backing into logic from an emotional start may happen occasionally, but it is very rare.
 
clownboy said:
That's nice, and I'm glad you like your system. We liked ours too, before Obama and the congress critters got ahold of it. Yes, just as you have complaints about some of the particulars of yours, we had some complaints about the particulars of ours. But overall...well, you get the drift.
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"We liked ours too"...Maybe you did. The poor, not so much. Now, Obamacare may not be the perfect solution, but it isn't the menace your partisanship tries to portray.
 
Rocketman said:
it does in Canada and I am sure it does there as well, how else do you think it is paid for? fairy dust?
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Are you interested in responding to any of the points I put to you at all?

It's a part of taxation, predating the current economic issues. Funding the NHS does not cause high levels of taxation.

We are always under the tax cosh when there's a Conservative Government in power and it's not much better when Labour is in and funding all kinds of silly intrusive initiatives like colour coding wheely bins and installing chips in them to ensure people must file their rubbish instead of just disposing of it.
 
clownboy said:
Total BS. None of those countries handle near the huge number of patients as the US system does very successfully. Not even close.
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You're defacto reason has no merit. What bearing does numbers have on the system?
 
scatt said:
They are only consensual if there is a choice to not do it (choice meaning an actual choice not a do this or I will lock you up "choice"). If the option not do it is not there, which is today's state taxation, there is no consent.
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Are you an anarchist then?

It is important for everyone to be able to possibly access a good or service without state interference. Your attachment to this good or service that is healthcare is very emotional and you would not apply it to things you do not have an emotional attachment to like a yacht for everyone. The problem with trying to justify what you emotionally like is emotions are rarely logical. Backing into logic from an emotional start may happen occasionally, but it is very rare.
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Sadly I have no idea what you're trying to say, perhaps you could cut it down a bit.
 
Rocketman said:
And I have fellow employees in Canada and England who can barely feed their families because of the ridiculous taxes and laws they must obey. again no thank you.
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If they can't feed their families because they are poor they aren't paying taxes and if they are they can't feed their families because they are bad with money. If your an average person making 40,000$/year you are paying 14%-20% income tax depending on the province I would not call that bankrupting. Your after tax income income averages between 32,000$ and 34,000$. Plug in whatever number you want here. If you want an example Quebec is the highest taxed jurisdiction in North America.
 
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Viv said:
Are you interested in responding to any of the points I put to you at all?

It's a part of taxation, predating the current economic issues. Funding the NHS does not cause high levels of taxation.

We are always under the tax cosh when there's a Conservative Government in power and it's not much better when Labour is in and funding all kinds of silly intrusive initiatives like colour coding wheely bins and installing chips in them to ensure people must file their rubbish instead of just disposing of it.
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so in fact taxes are more for the free healthcare system you have? I would rather pay less taxes so I have more money to invest to grow my own portfolio, not the governments
 
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