View Poll Results: What needs to change in US healthcare?

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  • Complete overhaul, replacing old system with European-style universal healthcare.

    27 58.70%
  • Partial overhaul, including expansion of Medicare, reworking of profit-based insurance system.

    9 19.57%
  • Sparse overhaul, based around getting rid of the profit-based private insurance companies.

    4 8.70%
  • Nothing needs to change, the US system is good the way it is.

    6 13.04%
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Thread: There are 36 countries with better healthcare than the USA. What needs to happen?

  1. #271
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    Re: There are 36 countries with better healthcare than the USA. What needs to happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    I do not believe in socialism. I feel no pity for people that make bad choices and then whine after their realities change later in life. Choices make people what they are most of the time. Working class should not bear that result
    "....Research at least suggests that our conscious self does not initiate all behavior. Instead, the conscious self is somehow alerted to a given behavior that the rest of the brain and body are already planning and performing. These findings do not forbid conscious experience from playing some moderating role, although it is also possible that some form of unconscious process is what is causing modification in our behavioral response. Unconscious processes may play a larger role in behavior than previously thought.

    It may be possible, then, that our intuitions about the role of our conscious "intentions" have led us astray; it may be the case that we have confused correlation with causation by believing that conscious awareness necessarily causes the body's movement. This possibility is bolstered by findings in neurostimulation, brain damage, but also research into introspection illusions. Such illusions show that humans do not have full access to various internal processes. The discovery that humans possess a determined will would have implications for moral responsibility. Neuroscientist and author Sam Harris believes that we are mistaken in believing the intuitive idea that intention initiates actions. In fact, Harris is even critical of the idea that free will is "intuitive": he says careful introspection can cast doubt on free will. Harris argues "Thoughts simply arise in the brain. What else could they do? The truth about us is even stranger than we may suppose: The illusion of free will is itself an illusion"...."
    Neuroscience of free will - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  2. #272
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    Re: There are 36 countries with better healthcare than the USA. What needs to happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    36 countries have better health care than the U.S. I have to wonder about that. I am always reading about people from all over the world coming to the U.S. to get the best health care the world has. Now all of a sudden, we are number 37 over night. Something with the title here does not equate with me. I have been perfectly satisfied and happy with the healthcare I and my family have received over my long life. So the U.S. ranking 37th in the world in health care just doesn’t make sense.

    A thought crossed my mind. I now wonder if the ranking was based on quantity instead of quality. That those of us in the U.S. receive the best health care good insurance and money can buy. But those at the bottom of the spectrum, with no insurance and little money get or receive very poor health care. So perhaps the title is dealing with quantity and health care availability to one and all and not the quality of health care this nation can provide.

    In other words, the U.S. has the highest quality of healthcare available in the world, but not all can partake of that quality. So it seems the goal of the ACA, to me anyway, is to downgrade the quality of healthcare that is provided to most Americans who had insurance prior to the passage of the ACA in order to give healthcare to everyone. Sort of dumbing down our healthcare system like our public school system has been dumbed down. Our public school system now teaches or brings down the education to the lowest or poorest student. Is our healthcare system going the same way. Bringing down the quality of it so everyone can partake of it? It seems that way.

    Perhaps if the quality of healthcare drops for the 80% while giving healthcare to the remaining 20% our standing will in the world soar from number 37 upwards while in reality the quality will have dropped immensely and we are no longer able to proved the highest quality of health care in the world.

    Just some thoughts.
    Overall, despite the many challenges of educating more diverse students, I think our country is better off educating more people.

    Table 1: Percentage of Students Graduating from High School* Year Percentage
    1899-1900 6.4
    1909-1910 8.8
    1919-1920 16.8
    1929-1930 29.0
    1939-1940 50.8
    1941-1942 51.2
    1943-1944 42.3
    1945-1946 47.9
    1947-1948 54.0
    1949-1950 59.0
    1951-1952 58.6
    1953-1954 60.0
    1955-1956 62.3
    1957-1958 64.8
    1959-1960 65.1
    1961-1962 69.5
    1963-1964 76.7
    *This table is reproduced from Kenneth A. Simon and W. Vance Grant, Digest of Educational Statistics, Office of Education, Bulletin 1965, No. 4 (Washington, D.C., U.S. Government Printing Office, 1965).
    U.S. High School Graduation Rates | Safe & Civil Schools

    "....A new analysis from the Editorial Projects in Education Research Center finds that the graduation rate for America's public schools stands just shy of 75 percent for the class of 2010, the most recent year for which data are available.

    The graduation rate, which has risen nearly 2 full percentage points from the previous year and 8 points in the past decade, has reached its highest point since 1973. At the current pace of improvement, the portion of students earning a diploma could surpass the historical high of 77.1 percent within the next few years....."
    U.S. Graduation Rate Highest in 40 Years | NEA Today

  3. #273
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    Re: There are 36 countries with better healthcare than the USA. What needs to happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    That's not it at all and a horrible characterization. Look, people as a group decide what balance they'll accept between capitalism and socialism and they move towards that goal. Pros and cons exist for each balance point. Feeling pity for people achieves absolutely nothing, it's a self-serving emotion and it's the actions taken that count in the real world. Pointing out that people dig themselves into their own holes doesn't imply that we shouldn't give them at least a hand up out of said hole. It's a truism - people chose and sometimes, perhaps for some often, make terrible choices that make their lives unmanageable later on.

    For us it's freedom to be able to chose the course of one's life, for good or ill. For you folks it's not, you'd rather be taken care of no matter what bad choices you make. That's fine too and much to be said for the nanny form of governing. Doesn't mean it works for us.
    That is one of the best expressions of a viewpoint from a conservative I have seen on this site in a long time.

    Here is where I differ:
    1. Many of us make bad choices at times in our life, especially when we are young and our brains aren't fully formed (in one's mid-2Os]. Many of us have economic, family, medical and psychological difficulties that impair our decision making. In many cases luck and our original economic circumstances determine the extent to which those mistakes will impact our future income and quality of life.

    2. Even with all the right choices and hard work, an unexpected and serious medical problem can destroy almost any family unless they are prosperous enough to afford high quality insurance or pay directly. Even healthy young people have accidents or develop a disease. Many families lose their primary income generator, have new expenses in addition to the direct medical costs, and lose their home and/or face bankruptcy. Medical crisis are the leading cause of mortgage defaults and bankruptcies. Using government to prevent, or prepare for, the challenges to all families and individuals caused by major medical problems can help improve our overall economic stability and quality of life. Wisely investing in prevention is healthier and better economically than spending money on a cure, both in medicine and public policy.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 01-05-14 at 06:07 PM.

  4. #274
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    Re: There are 36 countries with better healthcare than the USA. What needs to happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Overall, despite the many challenges of educating more diverse students, I think our country is better off educating more people.

    Table 1: Percentage of Students Graduating from High School* Year Percentage
    1899-1900 6.4
    1909-1910 8.8
    1919-1920 16.8
    1929-1930 29.0
    1939-1940 50.8
    1941-1942 51.2
    1943-1944 42.3
    1945-1946 47.9
    1947-1948 54.0
    1949-1950 59.0
    1951-1952 58.6
    1953-1954 60.0
    1955-1956 62.3
    1957-1958 64.8
    1959-1960 65.1
    1961-1962 69.5
    1963-1964 76.7
    *This table is reproduced from Kenneth A. Simon and W. Vance Grant, Digest of Educational Statistics, Office of Education, Bulletin 1965, No. 4 (Washington, D.C., U.S. Government Printing Office, 1965).
    U.S. High School Graduation Rates | Safe & Civil Schools

    "....A new analysis from the Editorial Projects in Education Research Center finds that the graduation rate for America's public schools stands just shy of 75 percent for the class of 2010, the most recent year for which data are available.

    The graduation rate, which has risen nearly 2 full percentage points from the previous year and 8 points in the past decade, has reached its highest point since 1973. At the current pace of improvement, the portion of students earning a diploma could surpass the historical high of 77.1 percent within the next few years....."
    U.S. Graduation Rate Highest in 40 Years | NEA Today
    I am mildly interested in how graduation standards have changed during the same period.

    Also, that list stops 50 years ago.

    Edit: I see the second link is supposed to cover that?

    Anyways, if the grad rate in 2010 was 75% and the highest in 40 years, it must have gone down a bit since 1964
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  5. #275
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    Re: There are 36 countries with better healthcare than the USA. What needs to happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Overall, despite the many challenges of educating more diverse students, I think our country is better off educating more people.

    Table 1: Percentage of Students Graduating from High School* Year Percentage
    1899-1900 6.4
    1909-1910 8.8
    1919-1920 16.8
    1929-1930 29.0
    1939-1940 50.8
    1941-1942 51.2
    1943-1944 42.3
    1945-1946 47.9
    1947-1948 54.0
    1949-1950 59.0
    1951-1952 58.6
    1953-1954 60.0
    1955-1956 62.3
    1957-1958 64.8
    1959-1960 65.1
    1961-1962 69.5
    1963-1964 76.7
    *This table is reproduced from Kenneth A. Simon and W. Vance Grant, Digest of Educational Statistics, Office of Education, Bulletin 1965, No. 4 (Washington, D.C., U.S. Government Printing Office, 1965).
    U.S. High School Graduation Rates | Safe & Civil Schools

    "....A new analysis from the Editorial Projects in Education Research Center finds that the graduation rate for America's public schools stands just shy of 75 percent for the class of 2010, the most recent year for which data are available.

    The graduation rate, which has risen nearly 2 full percentage points from the previous year and 8 points in the past decade, has reached its highest point since 1973. At the current pace of improvement, the portion of students earning a diploma could surpass the historical high of 77.1 percent within the next few years....."
    U.S. Graduation Rate Highest in 40 Years | NEA Today
    I graduated from High School in 1964. I was shocked when my youngest daughter went to college and I helped her with her homework. I found out a lot of what I learned back in High School was now being taught in College. This was especially true in core subjects like English, Math and Science. In other words the stuff I learned back in High School or my H.S. diploma as far as knowledge learned was the equivalent of a 2 year degree in college today. Not all subjects, just the core one.

    Hence my conclusion that of dumbing down our students through grade 12. My oldest granddaughter is now going to college and I can easily help her with her homework too. the grade structure in High School has also changed immensely. Looking at some of my old early 60's report cards, the grade scores or structure was 70-77 D, 79-85 C, 86-92 B and 93-100 A. According to another one of my granddaughters report cards the grade structure is now 70 D 71-79 C, 80-90 B and 90-100 A. That is pure grade inflation.

    We maybe keeping kids in school longer today and even graduating. But are we doing them any favors when they graduate with a 10th grade education and have to complete two years of college to get the education I received way back in the 50's and 60's?
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  6. #276

    Re: There are 36 countries with better healthcare than the USA. What needs to happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    You mean like having a healthcare system that successfully treats more people than the entirety of the EU while at the same time allowing for far more choice than any of the EU countries offer? No thanks.
    have you ever been in Europe?: )))
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  7. #277
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    Re: There are 36 countries with better healthcare than the USA. What needs to happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    .....We maybe keeping kids in school longer today and even graduating. But are we doing them any favors when they graduate with a 10th grade education and have to complete two years of college to get the education I received way back in the 50's and 60's?
    Yes, High School and College degrees strongly correllate with higher income and other quality of life indicators, but we can do better.

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    Re: There are 36 countries with better healthcare than the USA. What needs to happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I graduated from High School in 1964. I was shocked when my youngest daughter went to college and I helped her with her homework. I found out a lot of what I learned back in High School was now being taught in College. This was especially true in core subjects like English, Math and Science. In other words the stuff I learned back in High School or my H.S. diploma as far as knowledge learned was the equivalent of a 2 year degree in college today. Not all subjects, just the core one.

    Hence my conclusion that of dumbing down our students through grade 12. My oldest granddaughter is now going to college and I can easily help her with her homework too. the grade structure in High School has also changed immensely. Looking at some of my old early 60's report cards, the grade scores or structure was 70-77 D, 79-85 C, 86-92 B and 93-100 A. According to another one of my granddaughters report cards the grade structure is now 70 D 71-79 C, 80-90 B and 90-100 A. That is pure grade inflation.

    We maybe keeping kids in school longer today and even graduating. But are we doing them any favors when they graduate with a 10th grade education and have to complete two years of college to get the education I received way back in the 50's and 60's?
    As I understand it, highschool used to be all the education many people got - in the last few decades or so, however, it became more the norm to attend some form of higher education...I'm not sure if there is any connection, but it seems like there could be.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: There are 36 countries with better healthcare than the USA. What needs to happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Yes, High School and College degrees strongly correllate with higher income and other quality of life indicators, but we can do better.
    I think his point was that highschool graduation standards today are equal to 10th grade education standards 50 years ago, and that 2 years of college today is equal to a highschool graduation 50 years ago.


    Edit: Granted, part of that might be to the increasing levels of technical knowledge necessary for even entry-level jobs, but at the same time, many children these days grow up immersed in technology to a far greater extent than they did 50 years ago, and thus....absorb...some technical skills even without formal training.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: There are 36 countries with better healthcare than the USA. What needs to happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Yes, High School and College degrees strongly correllate with higher income and other quality of life indicators, but we can do better.
    I agree.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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