View Poll Results: Should the minimum wage be raised?

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  • Yes

    30 43.48%
  • no

    23 33.33%
  • It should be repealed

    15 21.74%
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Thread: Should the minimum wage be raised?[W:30]

  1. #71
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is sadly not historically accurate. The whole point of the minimum wage was to reduce the numbers of social 'undesirables', such as blacks and asians, by keeping them from being able to afford to have and raise families.



    This is also sadly historically incorrect. What you do when you raise the cost of hiring Americans is relatively increase the advantage of hiring non-Americans. That's why we have 50% unemployment among many of our inner-city youth, yet illegal immigrants with similar (or worse) language skills and education can find employment.



    No - you do not decrease the cost of government assistance by increasing the number of people on it, which is what increasing the MW would do.



    See that machine on the dude's right? That's what a minimum wage job looks like, at $15 an hour.


    All you need to do to understand what a $15.00 minimum wage looks like is check yourself out at the self serve centers in the retailers of today from the gas pumps to the grocery stores.

    There is a small leap from being able to electronically check myself out to them being able to assure that everything in the bag has been scanned.

    The whole scanner and security arrangements could be easily purchased and administered at a far lower cost than the 20 29-hour employees that it would take to staff the register for a year.

    If the minimum wage is passed at an extreme level, every time a cash register purchase is considered, the self check out option is going to be considered as well. Every time. If only 50% of the decisions are to make the switch, the impact will be dramatic.
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  2. #72
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Because you have choices. People working for minimum wage have 2 choices, work for minimum wage, or live on the street.


    Another option is to continue to accept an allowance from mom and dad or keep mowing lawns and shoveling walks in the neighborhood.
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  3. #73
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill;1062740664

    [img
    http://businessillustrated.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Automated_self_checkout.png[/img]

    See that machine on the dude's right? That's what a minimum wage job looks like, at $15 an hour.
    Not really an accurate comparison because Wal-mart has been doing that for years and my state goes by the federal minimum wage. There is regular cash registers in that picture and by the looks of that machine it only takes credit cards, the ones at wal-mart take both cash and credit.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  4. #74
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Not really an accurate comparison because Wal-mart has been doing that for years
    You are correct. Walmart has been doing that for years. Specifically, they have been doing it for about 4 or 5 years. Since the last time we raised the minimum wage.

    Do you ever wonder where all those workers who used to work the checkout lines, but were suddenly unaffordable went? Do you really think that through the magic of the desire to have a free lunch (which is what a MW Hike is), they all found higher paying jobs elsewhere?

    Because I worry that instead it look something like this:


    ?


    The result isn't exactly unpredictable:

    From the National Bureau of Economic Research:

    ...A sizable majority of the studies surveyed in this monograph give a relatively consistent (although not always statistically significant) indication of negative employment effects of minimum wages. In addition, among the papers we view as providing the most credible evidence, almost all point to negative employment effects, both for the United States as well as for many other countries. Two other important conclusions emerge from our review. First, we see very few - if any - studies that provide convincing evidence of positive employment effects of minimum wages, especially from those studies that focus on the broader groups (rather than a narrow industry) for which the competitive model predicts disemployment effects. Second, the studies that focus on the least-skilled groups provide relatively overwhelming evidence of stronger disemployment effects for these groups....


    MW Hikes hurt poor people. On top of the economic inefficiency and the restrictions on personal freedom, that is why they should be opposed.

    There is regular cash registers in that picture and by the looks of that machine it only takes credit cards, the ones at wal-mart take both cash and credit.
    So you cut your lines in 1/3 and leave one guy instead of 3 to cover the cash transactions. Since you're paying more, you can also then hire someone better at math and with greater computer skills, meaning that you fire all three of your former low-education, low-experience-labor workers, and hire one higher-earning, higher-education-higher-skills worker. Then you can train him to also do some basic trouble-shooting for the card-reading machines, and you've saved money.

    Sucks, of course, for the low-income, low-education, poor, who are now all unemployed. But hey. At least none of us are morally offended by them exchanging their labor for cash anymore.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-05-14 at 05:46 PM.

  5. #75
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    How many workers are even paid minimum wage? Most people aren't.
    About 3.6 million actually paid at or below minimum wage.43.6 million Americans are living in poverty, which means they most likely make barely above minimum wage.



    Walmart Employs 1% Of America. Should It Be Forced To Pay Its Employees More? - Business Insider
    CHART OF THE DAY: 43.6 Million Americans Living In Poverty Is The Highest Number Ever Recorded - Business Insider


    Why am I not paid minimum wage? Why aren't all engineers, for instance, paid the bare minimum at $7/hour? Do you think there might be some other factors at hand?
    Have you ever considered that since minimum wage acts as the bottom an employer may pay someone your wages and the wages of every engineer in this country are paid more than 7$ an hour?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  6. #76
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    About 3.6 million actually paid at or below minimum wage.43.6 million Americans are living in poverty, which means they most likely make barely above minimum wage.
    Or living on a combination of SSDI, SNAP, MEDICAID, WIC, and the like.

    Have you ever considered that since minimum wage acts as the bottom an employer may pay someone your wages and the wages of every engineer in this country are paid more than 7$ an hour?
    If an employer tries that with an engineer he will quickly go out of business for lack of engineers. Price-Fixing schemes are illegal, except, apparently, when the government does them.

  7. #77
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You are correct. Walmart has been doing that for years. Specifically, they have been doing it for about 4 or 5 years. Since the last time we raised the minimum wage.

    Do you ever wonder where all those workers who used to work the checkout lines, but were suddenly unaffordable went? Do you really think that through the magic of the desire to have a free lunch (which is what a MW Hike is), they all found higher paying jobs elsewhere?
    The idea those workers are unfordable is completely laughable. Walmart employs 1.4 million people in the US and makes at least 32.64 billion in gross profits. It can easily afford to pay its workers an extra 6- 8 bucks an hour more. Walmart uses those machines to pocket in more profit, not some idiotic idea they can't afford to pay workers more.


    Walmart CEO Michael Duke's Pay: More in an Hour Than Workers Get All Year? - ABC News

    By Ed Smith's math, the CEO of Walmart earns more in an hour than his employees will earn in a year.

    Smith, an alderman in Chicago, presented posters at a city council meeting showing that Walmart CEO Michael Duke's $35 million salary, when converted to an hourly wage, worked out to $16,826.92. By comparison, at a Walmart store planned for the Windy City's Pullman neighborhood, new employees to be paid $8.75 an hour would gross $13,650 a year

    Gross Profit for Wal-Mart (WMT) 2012 Q1 - Wikinvest
    $32.64 billion
    Last edited by jamesrage; 01-05-14 at 06:05 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  8. #78
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Or living on a combination of SSDI, SNAP, MEDICAID, WIC, and the like.
    You do realize that many of those people do work?As a military man if you had a family you would qualify for food stamps.

    Food Stamps: Military Families Redeem $100 Million A Year In SNAP Benefits


    If an employer tries that with an engineer he will quickly go out of business for lack of engineers.
    I am sure there is engineers in China and other countries that would like to take those jobs.

    Price-Fixing schemes are illegal, except, apparently, when the government does them.
    Price fixing may be illegal but it doesn't change the fact if employer after employer started paying lower wages for engineers then that becomes the standard.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #79
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    About 3.6 million actually paid at or below minimum wage.43.6 million Americans are living in poverty, which means they most likely make barely above minimum wage.



    Walmart Employs 1% Of America. Should It Be Forced To Pay Its Employees More? - Business Insider
    CHART OF THE DAY: 43.6 Million Americans Living In Poverty Is The Highest Number Ever Recorded - Business Insider




    Have you ever considered that since minimum wage acts as the bottom an employer may pay someone your wages and the wages of every engineer in this country are paid more than 7$ an hour?


    The poverty level is an interesting number.

    In the USA, the poverty level for the contiguous 48 is $15,510 for a household of 2. It's $19,530 for a household of 3.

    The average wage world wide, according to the UN is a little under $18,000/year.

    Food Stamps are available to those making 130% of the poverty level.

    ASPE

    BBC News - What is the world's average wage?
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  10. #80
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The idea those workers are unfordable is completely laughable. Walmart employs 1.4 million people in the US and makes at least 32.64 billion in gross profits. It can easily afford to pay its workers an extra 6- 8 bucks an hour more. Walmart uses those machines to pocket in more profit, not some idiotic idea they can't afford to pay workers more.


    Walmart CEO Michael Duke's Pay: More in an Hour Than Workers Get All Year? - ABC News

    By Ed Smith's math, the CEO of Walmart earns more in an hour than his employees will earn in a year.

    Smith, an alderman in Chicago, presented posters at a city council meeting showing that Walmart CEO Michael Duke's $35 million salary, when converted to an hourly wage, worked out to $16,826.92. By comparison, at a Walmart store planned for the Windy City's Pullman neighborhood, new employees to be paid $8.75 an hour would gross $13,650 a year

    Gross Profit for Wal-Mart (WMT) 2012 Q1 - Wikinvest
    $32.64 billion


    Gross profits is a qualified term.

    Wal-Mart's Gross Revenue was 469.16 Billion in 2013 with an EBITDA of 36.3 Billion, 7.7%.

    7.7% is not extraordinary either too high or too low. If I were an investor, I'd feel better about a 10% level, but that's just me.

    WMT Annual Income Statement - Wal-Mart Stores Inc. Annual Financials
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

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