View Poll Results: Should the minimum wage be raised?

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  • Yes

    30 43.48%
  • no

    23 33.33%
  • It should be repealed

    15 21.74%
  • other

    1 1.45%
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Thread: Should the minimum wage be raised?[W:30]

  1. #51
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    I am willing to bet they dont.
    So you're saying, all Chinese workers wish their companies would fail so that they would have no job? Really? So that means all Chinese workers are being forced to work there and need liberation from you?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  2. #52
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Then what reason is there for someone to work at all if what they are to be paid does not provide them with what they need? It would be better to simply live off public assistance or to get involved with illegal activity to make a living. The whole point of raising the minimum wage to a livable wage is to get people off public assistance and encourage people to enter the workforce. Corporations should be paying their workers, not tax payers.
    That is sadly not historically accurate. The whole point of the minimum wage was to reduce the numbers of social 'undesirables', such as blacks and asians, by keeping them from being able to afford to have and raise families.

    I am not even talking about illegal migrant workers, I am talking about legal workers. If we were to deregulate the minimum wage, companies would simply recruit legal workers from overseas on work visas to come to the US and work for them. By raising the minimum wage and making it a living wage, we will encourage Americans that would normally not think about working a lower paying job think about taking the job. Which would lower our unemployment rate drastically and open up jobs americans want to do.
    This is also sadly historically incorrect. What you do when you raise the cost of hiring Americans is relatively increase the advantage of hiring non-Americans. That's why we have 50% unemployment among many of our inner-city youth, yet illegal immigrants with similar (or worse) language skills and education can find employment.

    The point is to get them off of that. It is much more expensive to us to have them on government assistance then it would be to raise minimum wage $5 or $6 an hour.
    No - you do not decrease the cost of government assistance by increasing the number of people on it, which is what increasing the MW would do.



    See that machine on the dude's right? That's what a minimum wage job looks like, at $15 an hour.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-02-14 at 01:12 PM.

  3. #53
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Then you would be hard-put to explain the masses of people ruthlessly competing for those jobs. It is not uncommon for people to have to bribe their way in.


    The mistake people always make when discussing early-industrial conditions is to compare them to post-industrial conditions. When the comparison being made by those involved is between industrial conditions and agricultural conditions.
    Many of these people are forced into working in these places. A quick google search can probably really enlighten you to some of the crap they are forced to do and why they are there. The information is out there if you are wanting to learn. If you don't and would rather live in your own box then so be it. Noone can force you to educate yourself.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  4. #54
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Many of these people are forced into working in these places. A quick google search can probably really enlighten you to some of the crap they are forced to do and why they are there. The information is out there if you are wanting to learn. If you don't and would rather live in your own box then so be it. Noone can force you to educate yourself.
    you will certainly find plenty of examples of abuse. That's what happens when you get government affiliates running or owning business - they become immune to the regular rule of law.

    Which changes the fact that people pour into the cities looking for and competing for these jobs not a whit. It's not for nothing that the big push now is to find a way to move industry inland along China's two major river systems - it's because they are having to compete (and starting to lose) with Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia, et. al.; because the people there want those jobs as well, because the alternative (again) is generally subsistance farming.

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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Then what reason is there for someone to work at all if what they are to be paid does not provide them with what they need? It would be better to simply live off public assistance or to get involved with illegal activity to make a living. The whole point of raising the minimum wage to a livable wage is to get people off public assistance and encourage people to enter the workforce. Corporations should be paying their workers, not tax payers.



    I am not even talking about illegal migrant workers, I am talking about legal workers. If we were to deregulate the minimum wage, companies would simply recruit legal workers from overseas on work visas to come to the US and work for them. By raising the minimum wage and making it a living wage, we will encourage Americans that would normally not think about working a lower paying job think about taking the job. Which would lower our unemployment rate drastically and open up jobs americans want to do.


    The point is to get them off of that. It is much more expensive to us to have them on government assistance then it would be to raise minimum wage $5 or $6 an hour. If the minimum was at least 24-26k a year, it would greatly reduce the number of people on government assistance. Again, let companies pay workers salaries instead of us tax payers. Some of the largest, most profitable companies in the world pay their workers here in the US the least.



    I know, I have seen them. I have lived in the Philippines where I have personally seen and talked to people working on less than $200 a month. Living in homes with no electricity or plumbing. Many families with members who are nearly starving to death and suffering from disease. Yes, I have seen it, and it is not something you want in your city or town. That is the difference between a country where the government is simply unable to help the people and a country where it can.





    Yes. Is it perfect, no. But its better they exist then if the did not. Imagine not having something like the food and drug administration around. Who would hold companies responsible for selling harmful products to people? Who would encourage them to modify products for consumer safety in mind and deter them from just looking at the bottom line?



    While I don't like that the government bailed out big business, I have yet to decide if it was really the wrong thing to do. When I look at the results from that, the companies that were bailed out paid back the money and are now back on track making profit and employing US workers. If the car industry and banking industry had tanked, our unemployment rate would have taken a big hit and I am not sure if american companies would have been the ones that would have taken up the slack. We could have seen an increase of foreign companies, especially in the car industry, take up that slack which would have left US workers in the wind.

    And the military industrial complex is a rediculous tin foil hat theory. We left the industrial age decades ago.



    I did not say they served the people more than the corporations, I said that it is the only power we have over them. I would rather have some leverage then none at all. But you are correct, there probably should be more government regulations on companies.
    Well, you just answered my question. If you remove the minimum wage and companies refuse to pay them more then they make sitting on their asses...then they will continue to sit on their asses. So the corporations are going to have to pay them enough to get them off the couch...which guarantees that they will be paid (probably) not far from the present minimum wage...which was (more or less) my original point.

    But all minimum wage-type jobs are not the same, some are worth more pay then others...and they should be paid differently...not lumped together because of some arbitrary government mandate.

    But ALL arguments come down to one thing for me...I simply do not believe how much an employer pays his/her employee is ANY of the government's business (outside of income tax reasons). It is a private business...not a public one. If the employee does not like the pay...quit. If they cannot find a job that pays enough to survive...the government will take care of them.

    As I said; no well respected, international human rights organization (that I am aware of) states that a full time job must provide the necessities of life...not even the U.N..
    This notion that a company owes an employee a 'living wage' does not exist in either international law or in accepted human rights policies (except by those who want more money for zero extra effort).

    You want a higher minimum wage...fine. But saying you are owed one by business is simply not true.
    Last edited by DA60; 01-02-14 at 02:34 PM.

  6. #56
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Exactly! You favor minimum wage for Chinese workers because you don't want them to have those jobs! For third world countries the only advantage they can offer is cheap, you take that away from them and they have nothing to offer at all.
    I favor minimum wage laws for Americans. The Chinese working in outsourced American factories for 22 - 33 cents an hour for 80 hour work weeks is an example why minimum wage laws are a must.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  7. #57
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I favor minimum wage laws for Americans. The Chinese working in outsourced American factories for 22 - 33 cents an hour for 80 hour work weeks is an example why minimum wage laws are a must.
    Yes, you nailed it. The only thing keeping our low end workers from 22 cent an hour slave labor jobs is a minimum wage.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  8. #58
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Yes, you nailed it. The only thing keeping our low end workers from 22 cent an hour slave labor jobs is a minimum wage.
    That is the only reason factories outsource to other countries.So the idea that companies are simply going to pay a worker what they are worth if minimum wage laws are repealed is absurd.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #59
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    That is the only reason factories outsource to other countries.So the idea that companies are simply going to pay a worker what they are worth if minimum wage laws are repealed is absurd.
    How many workers are even paid minimum wage? Most people aren't. Why am I not paid minimum wage? Why aren't all engineers, for instance, paid the bare minimum at $7/hour? Do you think there might be some other factors at hand?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  10. #60
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    How many workers are even paid minimum wage? Most people aren't. Why am I not paid minimum wage? Why aren't all engineers, for instance, paid the bare minimum at $7/hour? Do you think there might be some other factors at hand?
    Because you have choices. People working for minimum wage have 2 choices, work for minimum wage, or live on the street.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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