View Poll Results: Should the minimum wage be raised?

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  • Yes

    30 43.48%
  • no

    23 33.33%
  • It should be repealed

    15 21.74%
  • other

    1 1.45%
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Thread: Should the minimum wage be raised?[W:30]

  1. #41
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    It's a vicious cycle. Anyone with half of a functioning brain capable of logical reasoning and basic arithmetic can figure this one out.

    Step one: End the Fed.

    Step two: **** step one just solved 75% of our problems, who wants to order pizza?

  2. #42
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    The government is simply protecting its electorate from paid slave labor. Even the most uneducated deserve to be able to afford the basic necessities if they are willing to put in an honest day's work.
    Nonsense. Nowhere is it written in the Constitution, the UN Charter or (to my knowledge) ANY internationally respected, human rights organization that a full time job MUST provide the basic necessities of life. It's just some mooching nonsense the ignorant masses cooked up. A worker should be paid exactly what they're worth to their employer...no more, no less. And if the worker doesn't like it...quit.

    You have obviously no idea what you are talking about. There are millions of immigrants in this country willing to work for well under the minimum wage. When you're previous life back in your home country consisted of living on less than $2 a day, $4 or even $3 an hour is a fortune. Especially when you have an entire family of 8-10 people living in a very small apartment all working for slave wages. They are willing to live in those kind of conditions to escape their country and live here. Americans would not be willing to live like that. So in essence, an unregulated wage only promotes companies from hiring foreign workers migrating from outside the US.



    Again, all deregulating the wage would encourage and would cause is an influx of migrant workers into your community.




    Then the only people you hurt are the migrant workers who you've encouraged to live in your community by offering low paying work.
    If they are illegal migrant workers...I DON'T CARE IF THEY DON'T LIKE IT. Pay too little...go home.

    And if they are legal migrant workers...they have access to free housing, food stamps and Obamacare. If that is not enough - tough.

    There are probably well over a billion people in the world that would LOVE to have enough shelter, food and medical care for sitting on their butts...complain to them.

    The whole purpose of having a government is to keep the country from being run by corporations. While we are nearly already run by corporations, at least, for the time being, corporations are sensitive to our concerns and we have power over them thru the government. That is why it is imperative we have a government that at least sets forth basic responsible business guidelines and regulations.
    So the government keeps corporations under control?

    LOLOLOL.

    Have you never heard of crony capitalism, too big to fail, mark-to-market bank rule changes, the military industrial complex, QE (which props up the stock market for corporations), low interest rates (which only the rich can fully utlitize AND which are destroying the income from savings of those on fixed incomes), the carry trade (a domain of only the rich), corporate political donations and government bailouts of their corporate buddies at AIG and GM?

    If you think the government (either dem or rep) serves the people more then corporations...then IMO, you have ZERO idea what you are talking about on this subject.
    Last edited by DA60; 01-02-14 at 06:57 AM.

  3. #43
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    Actually, most Americans can't afford jack ****.
    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    LOL, OK, if you don't want to have a real discussion and want to throw out childish one-liners, I think we're done here. Not sure if you're actually in Mecca or if you just did that to be ironic, but here in America even the poor have smartphones, computers, TVs, food in their bellies, and a roof over their heads.

    But by all means, don't let facts stop you from using your Chinese made computer to decry global trade.
    Actually Muhammed is right. Most Americans can't afford the smartphones, computers, TV ect. But they don't let that stop them from buying it.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  4. #44
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Exactly! You favor minimum wage for Chinese workers because you don't want them to have those jobs! For third world countries the only advantage they can offer is cheap, you take that away from them and they have nothing to offer at all.
    Are you familiar with what takes in these places? This whole theory you have that they should be grateful since something is better than nothing. Many of these shops are run under brutal conditions and are far from voluntary. The only justification you seem to have is that it makes things cheaper for you and that they might be worse off. Sorry but noone is better off to be forced to live like that. There are hundreds of millions of men, women and children being forced to work off debts for imaginary reasons. Working 100 hour weeks for nothing more than food and cramped quarters. And being beaten, raped and belittled at their employers leisure. As I've already pointed out this is pretty much the same as slavery.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  5. #45
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Nonsense. Nowhere is it written in the Constitution, the UN Charter or (to my knowledge) ANY internationally respected, human rights organization that a full time job MUST provide the basic necessities of life. It's just some mooching nonsense the ignorant masses cooked up. A worker should be paid exactly what they're worth to their employer...no more, no less. And if the worker doesn't like it...quit.
    Then what reason is there for someone to work at all if what they are to be paid does not provide them with what they need? It would be better to simply live off public assistance or to get involved with illegal activity to make a living. The whole point of raising the minimum wage to a livable wage is to get people off public assistance and encourage people to enter the workforce. Corporations should be paying their workers, not tax payers.

    If they are illegal migrant workers...I DON'T CARE IF THEY DON'T LIKE IT. Pay too little...go home.
    I am not even talking about illegal migrant workers, I am talking about legal workers. If we were to deregulate the minimum wage, companies would simply recruit legal workers from overseas on work visas to come to the US and work for them. By raising the minimum wage and making it a living wage, we will encourage Americans that would normally not think about working a lower paying job think about taking the job. Which would lower our unemployment rate drastically and open up jobs americans want to do.

    And if they are legal migrant workers...they have access to free housing, food stamps and Obamacare. If that is not enough - tough.
    The point is to get them off of that. It is much more expensive to us to have them on government assistance then it would be to raise minimum wage $5 or $6 an hour. If the minimum was at least 24-26k a year, it would greatly reduce the number of people on government assistance. Again, let companies pay workers salaries instead of us tax payers. Some of the largest, most profitable companies in the world pay their workers here in the US the least.

    There are probably well over a billion people in the world that would LOVE to have enough shelter, food and medical care for sitting on their butts...complain to them.
    I know, I have seen them. I have lived in the Philippines where I have personally seen and talked to people working on less than $200 a month. Living in homes with no electricity or plumbing. Many families with members who are nearly starving to death and suffering from disease. Yes, I have seen it, and it is not something you want in your city or town. That is the difference between a country where the government is simply unable to help the people and a country where it can.



    So the government keeps corporations under control?

    LOLOLOL.
    Yes. Is it perfect, no. But its better they exist then if the did not. Imagine not having something like the food and drug administration around. Who would hold companies responsible for selling harmful products to people? Who would encourage them to modify products for consumer safety in mind and deter them from just looking at the bottom line?

    Have you never heard of crony capitalism, too big to fail, mark-to-market bank rule changes, the military industrial complex, QE (which props up the stock market for corporations), low interest rates (which only the rich can fully utlitize AND which are destroying the income from savings of those on fixed incomes), the carry trade (a domain of only the rich), corporate political donations and government bailouts of their corporate buddies at AIG and GM?
    While I don't like that the government bailed out big business, I have yet to decide if it was really the wrong thing to do. When I look at the results from that, the companies that were bailed out paid back the money and are now back on track making profit and employing US workers. If the car industry and banking industry had tanked, our unemployment rate would have taken a big hit and I am not sure if american companies would have been the ones that would have taken up the slack. We could have seen an increase of foreign companies, especially in the car industry, take up that slack which would have left US workers in the wind.

    And the military industrial complex is a rediculous tin foil hat theory. We left the industrial age decades ago.

    If you think the government (either dem or rep) serves the people more then corporations...then IMO, you have ZERO idea what you are talking about on this subject.
    I did not say they served the people more than the corporations, I said that it is the only power we have over them. I would rather have some leverage then none at all. But you are correct, there probably should be more government regulations on companies.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  6. #46
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Are you familiar with what takes in these places? This whole theory you have that they should be grateful since something is better than nothing. Many of these shops are run under brutal conditions and are far from voluntary. The only justification you seem to have is that it makes things cheaper for you and that they might be worse off. Sorry but noone is better off to be forced to live like that. There are hundreds of millions of men, women and children being forced to work off debts for imaginary reasons. Working 100 hour weeks for nothing more than food and cramped quarters. And being beaten, raped and belittled at their employers leisure. As I've already pointed out this is pretty much the same as slavery.
    First, that is not how all Chinese jobs operate. There have been a few instances, but the vast majority of workers are not being raped and abused. They've voluntarily chosen to work there because the alternative is worse. Either starve, scrounge for food, work the fields, etc. You want to take away the only advantage they have so that they will be forced to do the other things.

    The market is simple, if they raise their prices, they will lose business. The only reason anyone buys from China is because it's cheap. That is a FACT. I want you to explain to me how LESS money flowing into China will somehow magically improve their standard of living.

    And I didn't say **** about being grateful, but I'm willing to bet they want to keep their jobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  7. #47
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    First, that is not how all Chinese jobs operate. There have been a few instances, but the vast majority of workers are not being raped and abused. They've voluntarily chosen to work there because the alternative is worse. Either starve, scrounge for food, work the fields, etc. You want to take away the only advantage they have so that they will be forced to do the other things.

    The market is simple, if they raise their prices, they will lose business. The only reason anyone buys from China is because it's cheap. That is a FACT. I want you to explain to me how LESS money flowing into China will somehow magically improve their standard of living.

    And I didn't say **** about being grateful, but I'm willing to bet they want to keep their jobs.
    I am willing to bet they dont.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  8. #48
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    It's an interesting debate and there is a community in Washington State that has recently raised the minimum to $15/hour. There should be some interesting data produced from this to review, but that is some time away.

    ...

    As I heard in Washington state in one community, that level is $15/hour.
    Since you referenced it, that community is also facing its own confusing exemptions due to a recent court ruling. Have been following this closely for the same reason you mentioned... because there should be some interesting data. But now... much less of that data.

    Link: SeaTac’s $15 minimum wage goes into effect

  9. #49
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    I am willing to bet they dont.
    Then you would be hard-put to explain the masses of people ruthlessly competing for those jobs. It is not uncommon for people to have to bribe their way in.


    The mistake people always make when discussing early-industrial conditions is to compare them to post-industrial conditions. When the comparison being made by those involved is between industrial conditions and agricultural conditions.

  10. #50
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    Re: Should the minimum wage be raised?

    As for the MW, I oppose it entirely. Firstly, it harms the poorest among us by moving the bottom rungs of life's ladder out of their reach. Secondly, the MW serves to effect a wealth transfer from poor Americans to upper-middle-class Americans and illegal immigrants - precisely the opposite direction of where wealth transfer programs should be directed. Finally, I find it morally repellent that the rest of us should tell someone "The current low value of your labor is distasteful to us. Get thee into unemployment and poverty, therefore, that we may not be offended by the thought of you."

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