View Poll Results: The Greatest General in History

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  • Napoleon Bonaparta

    6 13.95%
  • Genghis Khan

    11 25.58%
  • Julius Caesar

    5 11.63%
  • Salah ad-Din, Yusuf ibn Ayyub

    1 2.33%
  • Georgy Zhukov

    0 0%
  • Alexander the Great

    11 25.58%
  • Sir Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington

    2 4.65%
  • Charles Martel

    0 0%
  • Sun Tzu

    6 13.95%
  • Akbar the Great

    1 2.33%
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Thread: The Greatest General in History

  1. #71
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Are you defending Patton? There's no argument that he was above average, but if he'd had his way, we would not have stopped the war - we would have continued it against the Russians. And what do you think would have happened when he ran up against Zhukov and a battle-hardened force (with superior armor) many times his number?
    Kicked their asses all the way to Siberia. Patton went up against the Germans who had even better armor.
    "The Third Army claimed to have killed, wounded, or captured 1,811,388 German soldiers, six times its strength in personnel.[166] Fuller's review of Third Army records differs only in the number of enemy killed and wounded, stating that between August 1, 1944 and May 9, 1945, 47,500 of the enemy were killed, 115,700 wounded, and 1,280,688 captured, for a total of 1,443,888" quoted from George S. Patton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Had it not been for political agreements, Patton would of been first into Berlin. Zhukov's army performed much more poorly against the Germans and took far greater time to take objectives within Germany. Zhukov's Army wouldn't of held for even a month up against just the Third Army, much less the entire forces that the US and British had. Likely results would of been the fall of Soviet Russia in 2-3 years or less, no communist China, no communist Cuba, no communist North Korea and not communist Vietnam.

    All Zhukov had was armor and numbers and now where near the talent or understanding of three dimensional warfare that Patton had. All that armor really would of meant is a large number of sorties for P-51's outfitted as tank busters.
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  2. #72
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    But at what costs? Could have the US sustained such an empire? Soviet partisans could turn against their former allies and terrorize them much like how they terrorized the Nazis. The logistics would also have been a nightmare, even for the US. They would have won, but what about the long-term consequences? Would the US have stopped there? Where else could they have used the atomic bombs?
    Methinks that your scenario is a bit nightmarish.
    Just to get rid of Communism. Rebuild with a Constitution like we did in Japan. Both Japan and Germany prospered. We could have done that with the Russians too... make an ally.
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  3. #73
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    But at what costs? Could have the US sustained such an empire? Soviet partisans could turn against their former allies and terrorize them much like how they terrorized the Nazis. The logistics would also have been a nightmare, even for the US. They would have won, but what about the long-term consequences? Would the US have stopped there? Where else could they have used the atomic bombs?
    Methinks that your scenario is a bit nightmarish.
    100%.

    If they did not break the non-agression pact, a fair amount of the western world would still have a swastika flying high, not a doubt in my mind. The eastern front lost the war. Europe was ripe for the taking without the Soviets taking on the Nazis along with the Americans. Germany would be around to this day as the Reich if the soviets were not engaged whilst the rest of Europe was being fought.

    If they had completed the Atlantic wall, their ME-262 program into full production, and their atomic program....well....I believe the U.S. and Germany would have given each other the proverbial 'nod' and called it a day.

  4. #74
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR View Post
    Where's Patton? Where's Rommel? Where's General Lee?

    I forfeit from this. Those three were incredible under damn near impossible odds from a military standpoint. Anyone from either side in any of said wars would agree with the such. Geniuses for lack of better terminology.

    Kahn was an inspiration for many a campaign. Tzu was an inspiration for strategy. Still, my decision stands. Those men pioneered it, the big boys perfected it. Rommel vs Patton with equal forces...flip a damn coin, you're talking men who studied war to the likes of which men will never match again. They were gods amongst men. Lee...well we remember what Lee did with a force 1/2 the size, 1/8th supplied, and with zero reinforcements. The underdog that prevails and holds off the imminent threat longer than anyone could imagine commands respect from all, even the victor.
    I love Patton but he was over rated... he always had the advantage tactically and in forces.
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  5. #75
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    I get Lee and Rommel, but why Patton? It's not like he was the underdog.
    He would have been if Rommel wasn't re-assigned and the Soviets didn't open up the eastern front. It would have been an even match.

    Hitler had a gripe with Rommel. Rommel was his ace, and he decided to play the pocket kings instead of the pocket rockets. Fools decision IMO, it lost him the war. Rommel was his most dangerous weapon.

  6. #76
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I love Patton but he was over rated... he always had the advantage tactically and in forces.
    Patton with equal forces of sermons vs Rommel with his original Panzer divisions...

    vegas take your bets, it will be one for the books.

    Hitler sealed his fate when he essentially banished Rommel from the western front lines.

  7. #77
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR View Post
    He would have been if Rommel wasn't re-assigned and the Soviets didn't open up the eastern front. It would have been an even match.

    Hitler had a gripe with Rommel. Rommel was his ace, and he decided to play the pocket kings instead of the pocket rockets. Fools decision IMO, it lost him the war. Rommel was his most dangerous weapon.
    Methinks that Patton was just over-rated. To see a real Western Allied general, see for William Slim. That's your idea of an underdog. Low manpower, scarce resources, ignored by most Allied planners, he nonetheless routed superior Japanese forces in India through pure skill. Patton was good, but not that top-rank, Rommel-like good.
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  8. #78
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR View Post
    Patton with equal forces of sermons vs Rommel with his original Panzer divisions...

    vegas take your bets, it will be one for the books.

    Hitler sealed his fate when he essentially banished Rommel from the western front lines.
    Even with Rommel, the Third Reich would have still lost. If they wanted to win a war, they should have changed courses at least from around the early 1930s. It's a miracle that they lasted for so long.
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  9. #79
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR View Post
    Patton with equal forces of sermons vs Rommel with his original Panzer divisions...

    vegas take your bets, it will be one for the books.

    Hitler sealed his fate when he essentially banished Rommel from the western front lines.
    They both kicked ass... I would love to have seen either against the Commies...
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  10. #80
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR View Post
    100%.

    If they did not break the non-agression pact, a fair amount of the western world would still have a swastika flying high, not a doubt in my mind. The eastern front lost the war. Europe was ripe for the taking without the Soviets taking on the Nazis along with the Americans. Germany would be around to this day as the Reich if the soviets were not engaged whilst the rest of Europe was being fought.

    If they had completed the Atlantic wall, their ME-262 program into full production, and their atomic program....well....I believe the U.S. and Germany would have given each other the proverbial 'nod' and called it a day.
    I have no idea what're you talking about, but I'll reply anyways.
    With the US and the UK existing, the Nazis would have had no way to keep on to Western Europe.
    Your nonsense that the Eastern Front lost the war needs no comment. On second thought, do you mean for the Axis? Thought you meant losing the war for the Allies. Apologies if misunderstood.
    As for their atomic program, they still needed a decade to realize any atomic bomb. They wasted incredible amounts of resources on the V-weapons (which in hindsight, were incredibly useless) and since most of the best Axis scientists moved to the US or the UK due to the repression, they were far from an atomic bomb despite what popular myths and Hollywood movies dictate.
    "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all" - Joan Robinson
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