View Poll Results: The Greatest General in History

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  • Napoleon Bonaparta

    6 13.95%
  • Genghis Khan

    11 25.58%
  • Julius Caesar

    5 11.63%
  • Salah ad-Din, Yusuf ibn Ayyub

    1 2.33%
  • Georgy Zhukov

    0 0%
  • Alexander the Great

    11 25.58%
  • Sir Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington

    2 4.65%
  • Charles Martel

    0 0%
  • Sun Tzu

    6 13.95%
  • Akbar the Great

    1 2.33%
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Thread: The Greatest General in History

  1. #121
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Germans lost because of the mistakes Hitler forced his generals to make.
    Including sending troops at the peak of Syberian winter.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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  2. #122
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Tactics are only one part of what decides a battle. Logistics, training, and morale are every bit as important.

    I know this thread is about generals, but I think the naval Battle of Trafalgar is a great example. It was expected that the two lines of ships - the English on one side, and the Spanish and French on the other - would close and slug it out...which would have given the more numerous and better-armed Continental navy the advantage. Nelson negated their numerical and arms advantage by "breaking the line", sending his ships in a line perpendicular to the Continentals, and he proceeded to win the battle (though he did not live out the day).

    That's tactics.

    But what enabled him to use those tactics was the superior level of training the British tars had - their seamanship was world-class, and allowed him to maneuver and fight his ships more effectively. What's more, the British regularly trained their gunners with actual cannon fire and ammunition - this was expensive, but made their gunners much more effective.

    That's training.

    And what enabled the Brits to have such training - particularly on the cannons - was that the Brits made sure their ships stayed well-supplied with everything from sails to lines to gunpowder.

    That's logistics.

    And then there's morale - the British fleet had a very high morale because Nelson was their commander...and they all remembered the Battle of the Nile and the Glorious First of June, both battles that contributed to and further cemented the long, proud tradition of the British Navy. The Spanish and French had no such tradition, and they remembered those other battles too.

    That's morale.

    Tactics are crucial...but they're only crucial element of any battle.
    I never said any of those were unimportant, however, tactics are the most crucial element.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #123
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfred View Post
    Well, yes. Olympias was the daughter of Neoptolemus I who was, in fact, king of the Molossians.
    Hence I voted for Alex
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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  4. #124
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Are you defending Patton? There's no argument that he was above average, but if he'd had his way, we would not have stopped the war - we would have continued it against the Russians. And what do you think would have happened when he ran up against Zhukov and a battle-hardened force (with superior armor) many times his number?
    He would have lobbied hard for atomic weapons.
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  5. #125
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Tactics are only one part of what decides a battle. Logistics, training, and morale are every bit as important.

    I know this thread is about generals, but I think the naval Battle of Trafalgar is a great example. It was expected that the two lines of ships - the English on one side, and the Spanish and French on the other - would close and slug it out...which would have given the more numerous and better-armed Continental navy the advantage. Nelson negated their numerical and arms advantage by "breaking the line", sending his ships in a line perpendicular to the Continentals, and he proceeded to win the battle (though he did not live out the day).

    That's tactics.

    But what enabled him to use those tactics was the superior level of training the British tars had - their seamanship was world-class, and allowed him to maneuver and fight his ships more effectively. What's more, the British regularly trained their gunners with actual cannon fire and ammunition - this was expensive, but made their gunners much more effective.

    That's training.

    And what enabled the Brits to have such training - particularly on the cannons - was that the Brits made sure their ships stayed well-supplied with everything from sails to lines to gunpowder.

    That's logistics.

    And then there's morale - the British fleet had a very high morale because Nelson was their commander...and they all remembered the Battle of the Nile and the Glorious First of June, both battles that contributed to and further cemented the long, proud tradition of the British Navy. The Spanish and French had no such tradition, and they remembered those other battles too.

    That's morale.

    Tactics are crucial...but they're only crucial element of any battle.
    I dare say morale is at least 50%. Royal Gurkha rifles, point in proof. Throughout history, large military forces have been overwhelmed by smaller, vicious, more motivated forces. Give them a reason to fight, and forces with high morale will fight as though the devil had possessed them. You can kill a soldier, but you can't kill an idea. Now THAT paired with tactics wins wars.

  6. #126
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Hence I voted for Alex
    And I agree, partially.

    He was perhaps the most important general in history in terms of influence and significance. Exposing the East to Greek civilization and influence, and the introduction of Macedonian rule to huge new swathes of Asia, define his legacy.

  7. #127
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    I voted for Alexander the Great but my first choice would probably be Flavius Belisarius, who with little real support from his emperor Justinian, won a number of major compaigns and reconquered much of the lost Western Roman Empire.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  8. #128
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Including sending troops at the peak of Syberian winter.
    They invaded in the summer, but winter conditions were a problem in 41-42 because the Germans didn't have winter gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #129
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Are you defending Patton? There's no argument that he was above average, but if he'd had his way, we would not have stopped the war - we would have continued it against the Russians. And what do you think would have happened when he ran up against Zhukov and a battle-hardened force (with superior armor) many times his number?
    Patton would have out-maneuvered Zukhov. Our superior air power would wrecked their lines of communications.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #130
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Patton would have out-maneuvered Zukhov. Our superior air power would wrecked their lines of communications.
    Superior Air Power didn't help the Germans. And I'd take a T-34 over a Sherman any day of the week. Only way we win, would be to resort to the A-Bomb.

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