View Poll Results: The Greatest General in History

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  • Napoleon Bonaparta

    6 13.95%
  • Genghis Khan

    11 25.58%
  • Julius Caesar

    5 11.63%
  • Salah ad-Din, Yusuf ibn Ayyub

    1 2.33%
  • Georgy Zhukov

    0 0%
  • Alexander the Great

    11 25.58%
  • Sir Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington

    2 4.65%
  • Charles Martel

    0 0%
  • Sun Tzu

    6 13.95%
  • Akbar the Great

    1 2.33%
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Thread: The Greatest General in History

  1. #101
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's my point, had the German not engaged in either of those battles and concentrated their combat power on objectives that more operational importance. Prior to both of those battles the Soviets had a casualtu rate that meant they would run out of men before the Germans did.
    That isn't true though. A broad axis of advance was an essential requirement to the campaign because it was the only means of taking advantage of initial German advances in mobility, destroying Soviet field formations, preventing a single point of Soviet resistance from concentrating, and being strategically outflanked. After 1941 had passed away there was no chance for Germany to recover victory, the Soviet position had become too strong and the Germans irretrievably weakened.

  2. #102
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    In deference to my forebears, I think Arthur Wellesley, First Duke of Wellington should also be on the list. He kicked Napoleon's ass twice.
    Not to mention he was almost always outnumbered and had questionable allies.
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  3. #103
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueWarrior View Post
    Not to mention he was almost always outnumbered and had questionable allies.
    True. One reason Wellington was such a celebrated commander was his ability to take on a numerically superior enemy and defeat him. He did this many, many times.

  4. #104
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    While I do agree the war would of gone differently, could Germany really overcome the combined resources of the Allies and the Soviets? You speak of a defense strategy and I do agree that would of made a difference. If Hitler would of just allowed for a break out of Stalingrad, instead of ordering to defend to the last, you wouldn't of had an entire army wiped out. But I think for the Germans to truly turn the tied, they really needed a jet by late 1943-1944, to counter American Air Superiority.
    I'm not suggesting a defensive strategy. I'm talking about allowing an army to be flexible and using a mobile defense vice a static defense.

    Hitler had a no retreat policy, which caused German units to expend more combat power than necessary and it disallowed then to redeploy to a more favorable position. A good example of that infexibility is the Failaise Gap, where Hitler didn't allow a redeployment and an entire German army was encircled and cut off from it's escape route.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #105
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    True. One reason Wellington was such a celebrated commander was his ability to take on a numerically superior enemy and defeat him. He did this many, many times.
    Welington is proof that tactics are everything on the battlefield, even to the rigid formations of the Napoleonic period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #106
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Germans lost because of the mistakes Hitler forced his generals to make.
    Even considering the outstanding performance of the German forces, the incredible difference in industry, manpower, and technology would have made defeat inevitable. Only if German industrial policy was changed radically did the Germans have a chance.
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  7. #107
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    General Tso. Best chicken ever.

  8. #108
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    This is one of those enduring but self-serving myths that was largely pushed by Hitlers defeated Generals after the war. It is highly doubtful that even if his commanders had free reign that the war would have turned out dramatically different. It would have merely lasted a little longer.
    His generals wouldn't of been so eager to open a second front with the Soviets. And his generals aren't the ones that declared war on the US, and go them into the war.

  9. #109
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    That isn't true though. A broad axis of advance was an essential requirement to the campaign because it was the only means of taking advantage of initial German advances in mobility, destroying Soviet field formations, preventing a single point of Soviet resistance from concentrating, and being strategically outflanked. After 1941 had passed away there was no chance for Germany to recover victory, the Soviet position had become too strong and the Germans irretrievably weakened.
    The Germans's axis of advance could only be as wide as they had divisons to cover the front. It's a well known fact that neither Stalingrad, nor the Kursk Salient had any military significance. The Germans had to actually go out of their way to attack Stalingrad. Ultimately, the only reason they didn't hold Stalingrad was because the Luftwaffe couldn't keep Paulus' army supplied as promised.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #110
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    Re: The Greatest General in History

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I'm not suggesting a defensive strategy. I'm talking about allowing an army to be flexible and using a mobile defense vice a static defense.

    Hitler had a no retreat policy, which caused German units to expend more combat power than necessary and it disallowed then to redeploy to a more favorable position. A good example of that infexibility is the Failaise Gap, where Hitler didn't allow a redeployment and an entire German army was encircled and cut off from it's escape route.
    How far optimally could the Germans of pushed though? The Soviets had moved most of the industry west already, and thus would continue to build and build. Eventually, the sheer numbers would of overwhelmed and available defense. Technology would of been the key I believe. The Germans had the capability to creat the ME 262 back in 1942, 43 at the latest. But they stopped production of it because they didn't see the need. Can you imagine the German Air Force with hundreds of Jet fighters in 1943? They would of been able to re-establish air superiority and rebuilt their industry. There's also the question of The Bomb... could Hitler of continued the war after Berlin, or Munich was leveled?

    If you can't tell, I'm split on how effective Germany could of couldn't of been.

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