View Poll Results: Should Corporate/Privatized prisons be outlawed?

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  • Yes.

    36 81.82%
  • No.

    6 13.64%
  • Other.

    1 2.27%
  • I did not know about Corporate prisons.

    1 2.27%
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Thread: For-Profit Prisons: Eight Statistics That Show the Problems

  1. #91
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    Re: For-Profit Prisons: Eight Statistics That Show the Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    War on Drugs, interesting, the world is full of drugs, most all drugs are illegal, even prescription drugs without a Dr. subscription. Illegal drugs can range from blood pressure pills, pain pills, to raw heroin, to pot. However this is not the thread to debate this issue. Start a thread, I'll look for it.
    How do you separate the biggest reason for overcrowded prisons from a discussion of prisons? The two issues are inseparable.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: For-Profit Prisons: Eight Statistics That Show the Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    I already answered your question, read post 81. Sorry you're claim in bold is not a proven fact. To run a prison or any hotel etc. you as a operator need a guarantee by the owner of a certain ocupency rate to break even. This is standard in so many operators of hotels, prisons, cruise lines, theme parks, you name it.

    I repeat the state or the fed can shut down a prison to keep the capacity of the other prisons near full capacity making for a private or government run facility economical for the tax payer. This is a fact. You can find litature to support your cause at every turn. But because it is written somewhere does not make it SO.

    You make the word "quota" sound like a nasty word. Forget "quota" for a second and say "occupancy rate" to run a facility to be efficient it has to have a certain occupancy rate. And to do that the state can close other facilities to guarantee the occupancy rate.
    Except we ain't talking about taking the family for weekend getaway. We're talking about people's lives. Further, I suppose you're under the impression that shutting down a prison facility is as simple as turning around the sign on the door to say CLOSED and just sending the cook on home early...

    I suppose you're also under the impression all prisons are created equal. Level 1 prisoners can just as easily serve their time in a Level 4 or 5, and vice versa. That the employees of these facilities are just pawns in the game and you know, their livelihood, the livelihood of the surrounding communities which are directly effected by the presence of these facilities, they too have to just suck it up when the State, County, or Federal government decide that occupancy rates just can't meet contractual obligations, and who pays for the breach of contract? That don't cost money neither I suppose?

    I know how hard our representatives work for us in State and Federal legislatures, they'll go through the whole ordeal of opening and closing facilities, creating inter-state agreements of transfer, negotiations of reimbursement, the whole nine yards, instead of just passing along sentencing guidelines that ensure quotas are met and the money keeps flowing... What money? The money that goes to the contractors, to the lawyers, the lobbyists, the politicians, the judges, you know the money...

    See, you're thinking plausible deniability when you should be thinking conflict of interest.

    I don't believe the government should be doing much, but this should be theirs exclusively.

  3. #93
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    Re: For-Profit Prisons: Eight Statistics That Show the Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Except we ain't talking about taking the family for weekend getaway. We're talking about people's lives. Further, I suppose you're under the impression that shutting down a prison facility is as simple as turning around the sign on the door to say CLOSED and just sending the cook on home early...

    I suppose you're also under the impression all prisons are created equal. Level 1 prisoners can just as easily serve their time in a Level 4 or 5, and vice versa. That the employees of these facilities are just pawns in the game and you know, their livelihood, the livelihood of the surrounding communities which are directly effected by the presence of these facilities, they too have to just suck it up when the State, County, or Federal government decide that occupancy rates just can't meet contractual obligations, and who pays for the breach of contract? That don't cost money neither I suppose?

    I know how hard our representatives work for us in State and Federal legislatures, they'll go through the whole ordeal of opening and closing facilities, creating inter-state agreements of transfer, negotiations of reimbursement, the whole nine yards, instead of just passing along sentencing guidelines that ensure quotas are met and the money keeps flowing... What money? The money that goes to the contractors, to the lawyers, the lobbyists, the politicians, the judges, you know the money...

    See, you're thinking plausible deniability when you should be thinking conflict of interest.

    I don't believe the government should be doing much, but this should be theirs exclusively.
    You are hung up on this ocupency rate for a company or a government run prison. A facility is built, which no one wants to build, and someone has to run it. The reason the states or the fed outsource the management of some of these prisons is it is more economical for the tax payer. Period. That is a good thing. Outsourcing is done all the time by governments and your argument is there is a conflict of interest. There is not. If there was a conflict of interest then outsourcing would be banned. Governments contract for services daily.

    In bold, that statement is bogus and BS. You make false statements and accusations that you have no proof. Hey guys our prisons are falling shot on occupancy, we have to hurry up and increase our sentencing standards to get our prisons full again. What BS. I'm done. Have a good day.
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    Re: For-Profit Prisons: Eight Statistics That Show the Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    How do you separate the biggest reason for overcrowded prisons from a discussion of prisons? The two issues are inseparable.
    I have not. You would have to go back a read one of my post.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
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    Re: For-Profit Prisons: Eight Statistics That Show the Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    You are hung up on this ocupency rate for a company or a government run prison. A facility is built, which no one wants to build, and someone has to run it. The reason the states or the fed outsource the management of some of these prisons is it is more economical for the tax payer. Period. That is a good thing. Outsourcing is done all the time by governments and your argument is there is a conflict of interest. There is not. If there was a conflict of interest then outsourcing would be banned. Governments contract for services daily.

    In bold, that statement is bogus and BS. You make false statements and accusations that you have no proof. Hey guys our prisons are falling shot on occupancy, we have to hurry up and increase our sentencing standards to get our prisons full again. What BS. I'm done. Have a good day.
    I'm hung up on occupancy rates for privately owned prisons. Government's aren't suppose to be taking a profit, so therefore, I have no concern about quotas in public institutions. When did anyone anywhere at any time spend millions on something they didn't want? (in the private sector, in the public this is a non-issue, they do it all the time to create jobs, it's asinine, but hey, what can I tell ya...)

    Come now. More economical?

    Colorado: Though crime has dropped by a third in the past decade, an occupancy requirement covering three for-profit prisons has forced taxpayers to pay an additional $2 million.

    Arizona: Three Arizona for-profit prison contracts have a staggering 100% quota, even though a 2012 analysis from Tucson Citizen shows that the company’s per-day charge for each prisoner has increased an average of 13.9% over the life of the contracts.

    Ohio: A 20-year deal to privately operate the Lake Erie Correctional Institution includes a 90% quota, and has contributed to cutting corners on safety, including overcrowding, areas without secure doors and an increase in crime both inside the prison and the surrounding community.
    Lockup Quotas and


    Oh, yeah, look at the savings, the savings...

    Shall we get into these companies suing States for not meeting quotas?


    My statements are dead on.

    I have ample proof, I do not make false statements, just because you for some reason wish to turn a blind eye to what's clearly a problem, don't go making up things.

    Pa. judge gets 28 years in 'kids for cash' case - US news - Crime & courts | NBC News

    You're done? good, and with all your free time try googling this issue and go through some of the 25 million sites on what this topic brings up...

    There's ample proof, you've just got to open your eyes.

    but a good day to you...

  6. #96
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    Re: For-Profit Prisons: Eight Statistics That Show the Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I'm hung up on occupancy rates for privately owned prisons. Government's aren't suppose to be taking a profit, so therefore, I have no concern about quotas in public institutions. When did anyone anywhere at any time spend millions on something they didn't want? (in the private sector, in the public this is a non-issue, they do it all the time to create jobs, it's asinine, but hey, what can I tell ya...)

    Come now. More economical?


    Lockup Quotas and


    Oh, yeah, look at the savings, the savings...

    Shall we get into these companies suing States for not meeting quotas?


    My statements are dead on.

    I have ample proof, I do not make false statements, just because you for some reason wish to turn a blind eye to what's clearly a problem, don't go making up things.

    Pa. judge gets 28 years in 'kids for cash' case - US news - Crime & courts | NBC News

    You're done? good, and with all your free time try googling this issue and go through some of the 25 million sites on what this topic brings up...

    There's ample proof, you've just got to open your eyes.

    but a good day to you...
    If there absolutely must be private contracts... and no there is no 'must', but this is for the sake of conversation and presenting possible options... then the contract should be a flat fee with absolutely zero minimum or maximum quotas. This would effectively eliminate the corporation's need for "customers" and might even induce them to allow for reasonable release, etc.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  7. #97
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    Re: For-Profit Prisons: Eight Statistics That Show the Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    If there absolutely must be private contracts... and no there is no 'must', but this is for the sake of conversation and presenting possible options... then the contract should be a flat fee with absolutely zero minimum or maximum quotas. This would effectively eliminate the corporation's need for "customers" and might even induce them to allow for reasonable release, etc.
    For argument's sake, I'm not above doing hypotheticals, for argument sake, without the quota it wouldn't be a viable business model...

  8. #98
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    Re: For-Profit Prisons: Eight Statistics That Show the Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    For argument's sake, I'm not above doing hypotheticals, for argument sake, without the quota it wouldn't be a viable business model...
    Not necessarily. It could still be profitable, it would just be limited.

    Having said that, I still would not advocate it. The incentive to cut corners would be even more important to them, and who knows what we'd get as a result?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  9. #99
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    Re: For-Profit Prisons: Eight Statistics That Show the Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Not necessarily. It could still be profitable, it would just be limited.

    Having said that, I still would not advocate it. The incentive to cut corners would be even more important to them, and who knows what we'd get as a result?
    Narrow margins would be a detractor for going into it in the first place in my opinion, essentially you're running a "cost plus" operation. Couple that with no guaranteed revenue streams, a no cyclic, not simply a non cyclic business model, the regulations and guidelines, the PR to keep all the advocacy groups from completely running a muck, the liability insurance -- nah, there are many better (and more profitable) ways to make use of that money...

    Any way you cut it, it's just ill conceived...

  10. #100
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    Re: For-Profit Prisons: Eight Statistics That Show the Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Narrow margins would be a detractor for going into it in the first place in my opinion, essentially you're running a "cost plus" operation. Couple that with no guaranteed revenue streams, a no cyclic, not simply a non cyclic business model, the regulations and guidelines, the PR to keep all the advocacy groups from completely running a muck, the liability insurance -- nah, there are many better (and more profitable) ways to make use of that money...

    Any way you cut it, it's just ill conceived...
    Not sure I'm reading this right. The flat fee would be guaranteed, so they'd get the same if 10 beds were filled or 100 beds. There would actually be an incentive to NOT have them all filled, hence no incentive to advocate all the crap laws we have now.

    Note: I do NOT advocate this as an ideal alternative, just a better one. Ideally, profit motive should be eliminated entirely.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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