View Poll Results: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

Voters
55. You may not vote on this poll
  • Release them.

    5 9.09%
  • Move them to US facilities and try them.

    17 30.91%
  • Continue to detain then indefinitely.

    8 14.55%
  • Something else.

    25 45.45%
Page 27 of 30 FirstFirst ... 172526272829 ... LastLast
Results 261 to 270 of 295

Thread: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

  1. #261
    Heavy Hitter


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Last Seen
    @
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    63,786

    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    again, whether you think it was a strategic mistake or not is irrelevant to the success of the Surge.
    Define success. Hell, Nixon bombing Cambodia was a "success", until it wasn't.

  2. #262
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,125

    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    I seem to recall we were already in the process of leaving Iraq due to a agreement negotiated by the previous administration. The Iraqis just asked us to leave sooner.
    Sort of - we failed to negotiate a Status of Forces Agreement, and so we had to leave earlier, regardless of whether or not conditions on the ground warranted it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calamity
    He did a good job storming through Iraq and killing the Husseins. He sucked at keeping the peace and rebuilding Iraq. Sad thing is he was too arrogant to change his strategy, and the Right had thier noses too far up the Bush Administration's ass to force change
    Meh. The military did indeed do an excellent job of taking out the Republican Guard, and trying to conduct Shock and Awe with a bias towards minimum necessary destruction. But yes, the original post-invasion stabilization strategy pursued by Rumsfeld, General Franks, and Paul Bremer was disastrous. Arrogant? I would say heavily prone to Confirmation Bias.

    As for forcing change - forcing change came from the Bush Administration, in one of the best traditions of American Warfare.

  3. #263
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    On the contrary - you are refusing to answer the point: is Civil Disobedience, such as that used by Martin Luther King, unjustified because it is illegal, or does the fact that something is illegal not disqualify it from being justifiable?



    Referencing context or framework which you are unwilling to describe is simply a spin move, Boo. You didn't answer the question.

    You stated that Illegal and Immoral Means are Not Justified by the Ends.

    Did you mean to say that means are unjustified when they are:

    A: Immoral
    B: Illegal
    C: Both Immoral and Illegal

    ?

    I predict you will be unwilling to answer this question because no matter what you choose, it leaves you with problems.
    Because the question is deceptive. It's not what we're talking about. Because they knew it was illegal, and accepted the consequences, they fall under a different category.

    And yes, I know the trick of using something different and pretending it's the same thing. We've play this game before. If you're honest, either show they are the same or pick something that is the same.

    But I gave answered your question fully.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #264
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,125

    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Define success.
    Well, for example, where I was in Fallujah, AQI and associates were pretty much driven out, attacks dropped from about 200 a month to 1 every two months (and were poorly conducted and ineffective at that), the local populace completely lost their fear of the M&I campaign and began to stand up for themselves (I remember knowing that we had won when I read a report about local shop owners beating an AQI operative with broomsticks for trying to dig a hole for IED's near their shops), local government became responsive to the needs of the populace and began to effectively coordinate public resources towards those ends, and the infrastructure of modern life (schools, trash disposal, power) were back up and running. Parents could send their kids to school without fear of violence on the streets.

    I remember being out at night and we ran across a group of people out on the street outside a shop playing some game or another, talking, laughing. It was odd because there was still technically a curfew, but nobody enforced it because it wasn't needed anymore, but also because people used to be terrified to be out at night. The interpreter was going back and forth with a couple of the leading men of the group and turned back to us with an odd look and told us that it was all very odd - he hadn't seen it before: the people were hippy. "They're hippies, Mike?" (to help protect identities, interpreters were given American nicknames). "No, no no, they are hippy. You know (he cavorts around for a second, grinning). Hippy." "Happy, Mike?" "Yes, yes, Happy, happy happy, people are finally happy."

    I had a friend roll through Fallujah a year and a half or so after that - he said there was a Kentucky Fried Chicken right on top of an old Tier One IED Site where we used to get blown up all the time. (shakes head) Never woulda thunk it when we first got there.

  5. #265
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,125

    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Because the question is deceptive. It's not what we're talking about. Because they knew it was illegal, and accepted the consequences, they fall under a different category.
    I agree that they knew it was illegal and accepted the consequences. I asked you if their actions were justified.

    It's a yes/no question, Boo. Easy-peasy.

    But I gave answered your question fully.
    No, you have explicitly refused to do so. A, B, or C, Boo - again, not difficult. Which one were you referring to?

    Again, I predict you are going to refuse to answer the question, because you either recognize or unconsciously understand that once you do so, you will be forced to come to face with counterexamples of how the rule you have argued for (that illegal and immoral means are never justified by ends) is not, in fact, defensible. That is why you have also been ignoring the points against each of them that have already been raised.
    Last edited by cpwill; 12-28-13 at 04:13 PM.

  6. #266
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I agree that they knew it was illegal and accepted the consequences. I asked you if their actions were justified.

    It's a yes/no question, Boo. Easy-peasy.



    No, you have explicitly refused to do so. A, B, or C, Boo - again, not difficult. Which one were you referring to?

    Again, I predict you are going to refuse to answer the question, because you either recognize or unconsciously understand that once you do so, you will be forced to come to face with counterexamples of how the rule you have argued for (that illegal and immoral means are never justified by ends) is not, in fact, defensible. That is why you have also been ignoring the points against each of them that have already been raised.
    Only deceptive people deal in yes and no questions. They are used to hide behind.

    I have answered the question by showing that it doesn't fit in our discussion.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #267
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,125

    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Only deceptive people deal in yes and no questions. They are used to hide behind.

    I have answered the question by showing that it doesn't fit in our discussion.
    No you didn't. You were asked if their actions were justified (as the standard you had proposed seemed to suggest that they were not), and you replied that they expected to go to jail, as though that had any impact on justification of illegality. You continue to attempt to avoid hard questions because it turned out you proposed a stupid (though, you defend, common) standard.

  8. #268
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No you didn't. You were asked if their actions were justified (as the standard you had proposed seemed to suggest that they were not), and you replied that they expected to go to jail, as though that had any impact on justification of illegality. You continue to attempt to avoid hard questions because it turned out you proposed a stupid (though, you defend, common) standard.
    And I should you how they were differ, which should have informed you pick an example more in keeping. You need an example like torture. One that the immoral try to justify. One where no one accepts responsibility. One that fits the common understanding of the phrase. You try to bend it to fit something it doesn't. I know your tactic, as I've said. I stopped playing it with you years ago. Either stay within the context, or move on.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #269
    don't panic
    marduc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Seen
    10-22-17 @ 04:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,301

    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    At the rate we are going they will live out the rest of their natural lives doing the Guantanamo limbo and we will not have to do anything, they will just all die out over time
    Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
    Drugs are bad, prohibition is worse

  10. #270
    Sage
    shrubnose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Last Seen
    11-29-17 @ 03:46 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    18,851
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    The United States owns/leases the land that they are held on, therefore they are on American land.



    Different people have different opinions on that.

Page 27 of 30 FirstFirst ... 172526272829 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •