View Poll Results: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

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  • Release them.

    5 9.09%
  • Move them to US facilities and try them.

    17 30.91%
  • Continue to detain then indefinitely.

    8 14.55%
  • Something else.

    25 45.45%
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Thread: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

  1. #231
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    It's all so "hush hush" Carney wouldn't confirm if Obama was still breathing but this is a big part of the answer:


    White House mum on Yemeni detention facility | TheHill

    we should be glad to pay for it (detention center/prison), and ship them off to Yemen, where they can get their fair share of abuse.
    This would be..... a very bad idea. Unless it's some kind of deliberate catch and release program as I have described this would.... be unwise.


    so we will probably do it. And then try to spin our way out of not being surprised when they exhibit high rates of recidivism.

  2. #232
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    This would be..... a very bad idea. Unless it's some kind of deliberate catch and release program as I have described this would.... be unwise.


    so we will probably do it. And then try to spin our way out of not being surprised when they exhibit high rates of recidivism.
    they are supposed to "rehabilitate" those whom can be so, and just hold those whom can't.

    Being the fact Yemen is taking a big part of AQ attacks inside it's borders; one would think to trust their judgements/proceedures.
    Yemen isn't going to release anyone they see as a 'threat' -i'd trust their judgement on this,
    the ME isn't exactly a place that worried too much about due process.

    Get them out of GITMO, and let another Arab state hold them
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  3. #233
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    they are supposed to "rehabilitate" those whom can be so, and just hold those whom can't.

    Being the fact Yemen is taking a big part of AQ attacks inside it's borders; one would think to trust their judgements/proceedures.
    Yemen isn't going to release anyone they see as a 'threat' -i'd trust their judgement on this,
    the ME isn't exactly a place that worried too much about due process.

    Get them out of GITMO, and let another Arab state hold them
    Well if you trust the Yemeni government to be stable, unitary, and effective enough to hold these guys, good on you I suppose. I do not share that opinion, and I do not know anyone who has spent time studying Yemen (and I know a couple of those) who does.

  4. #234
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    they are supposed to "rehabilitate" those whom can be so, and just hold those whom can't.

    Being the fact Yemen is taking a big part of AQ attacks inside it's borders; one would think to trust their judgements/proceedures.
    Yemen isn't going to release anyone they see as a 'threat' -i'd trust their judgement on this,
    the ME isn't exactly a place that worried too much about due process.

    Get them out of GITMO, and let another Arab state hold them
    I think that's part of the problem, the states they came from don't want them back. Yes, they should be tried by military tribunal, which is the currently the on going process, then either released or incarcerated, probably at Gitmo. Trouble is that last I recall, the large majority of those released have rejoined terrorist groups and have attacked people, often innocent people, using the typical terrorist tools such as car bombs.

  5. #235
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Rumsfelds' "Light Footprint" strategy (what today we call "Drones and Special Forces", and is suddenly popular with many on both sides who want to limit our presence overseas) was indeed incredibly ill-suited to counterinsurgency in the context of a collapsed nation-state. His refusal to accept discordant analysis on items such as necessary force allocations from senior military leadership, including JCS Shinseki is rightfully a classic case of low-complexity, confirmation-seeking decision-making. However it wasn't his decision to send home the Iraqi Army - that was a casualty of the lack of unity of command and division between Bremer and Franks. Nor was it the Bush Administrations' fault that we lacked armored vehicles and the kinds of body armor we ended up wearing - those were produced by the Clinton Administrations' reductions in R&D and Procurement in the 90s. Rumsfeld was derided for the "you go to war with the army you have" comment, but he was also correct; just as he was with the "Known Unknowns" schtick.

    Just saying, the man deserves credit for what he got right, and blame for what he got wrong, rather than to have anything that happened that was bad or good thrown randomly on him.
    There's a lot of information we are privy to and a lot we are not. It is real easy to be an armchair quarterback.

  6. #236
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You did not limit your proposed ban to "immoral". You said Immoral and Illegal. Look, I'll quote you saying it:



    If you now wish to strike "illegal" and simply say that immoral means do not justify the ends that's fine. In that case my reply to you would be the same as my point to DA60 - that the morality of means is often determined by the end being pursued, and cannot be considered independently of them.


    Or if you wish to argue that you were speaking only to means that were both immoral and illegal then that would be fine, too. That would leave you defending means that were strictly immoral (but not illegal) as justified by an end, but it's your call.



    The ends do not justify the means is a common phrase. The argument that no end justifies any means is not.
    You're not following. The illegal was dealt with by the expectation that they would go to jail. I have eliminated neither.

    And no, that is not the argument. You continue to be wrong.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #237
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're not following. The illegal was dealt with by the expectation that they would go to jail.
    Which, if you are arguing that illegal means are not justified by the ends, is irrelevant. Their means (Civil Disobedience) would remain unjustified.

    I have eliminated neither.

    And no, that is not the argument. You continue to be wrong.


    Okay. We'll do this slowly.

    Are means unjustified when they are:

    A: Immoral
    B: Illegal
    C: Both Immoral and Illegal

    ?

  8. #238
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    There's a lot of information we are privy to and a lot we are not. It is real easy to be an armchair quarterback.
    No doubt. But the decision-making procedures in higher DOD were atrocious, and Rumsfeld does indeed deserve blame for that. He already had his answer, and he was not interested in troublesome information or analysis.

  9. #239
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Release them? Try them? Leave them there indefinitely... forever?

    Do we lose any alleged moral high ground by detaining then indefinitely? Should we care?



    Those that we can't put on trial and convict should be released.

    That mess should have been cleaned up a long time ago.

  10. #240
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Shoot them.



    Under what authority?

    Who is going to pull the triggers?

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