View Poll Results: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

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  • Release them.

    5 9.09%
  • Move them to US facilities and try them.

    17 30.91%
  • Continue to detain then indefinitely.

    8 14.55%
  • Something else.

    25 45.45%
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Thread: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

  1. #191
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Civil disobedience comes with consequences. People are arrested, charged, and sentenced. The idea is to change the course, not sidestep the law.
    Thank you for describing Civil Disobedience. But I cannot help but notice that you did not answer the question.

    Was (for example) the Civil Disobedience practiced by Martin Luther King Jr justified?

    I drove ambulance for sometime. The law accounts for their proper actions.
    I'm not really willing to do a state-by-state search of the relevant law, and will take your word on it.

    And there's nothing magical. The phrases come complete with societal context.
    On the contrary, the use of the absolute declares the absolute.

  2. #192
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    He said the means NEVER justify the ends.

    Which means, for example, that driving (which places others at risk) is not justified by the need to get to work.

    Waging defensive war (in which people will die) is not justified by an attack.

    Having a police force (which inevitably will result in harm to an innocent) is not justified even by violent crime.

    Membership in this form (when your time could be spent elsewhere) is not justified by the desire to participate.



    And so forth. Saying that "The Ends Never Justify The Means" is basically a way of saying "I Refuse To Make Cost Benefit Analysis".
    Ummm, no.

    I said the ends never justify the means...totally the opposite of what you accused me of saying.

  3. #193
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Ummm, no.

    I said the ends never justify the means...totally the opposite of what you accused me of saying.
    If the Ends NEVER Justify the Means....

    Then that means that Means are NEVER Justified, as Means by definition are attempts to get to an END. "NEVER" is an absolutist statement.

    It is not my fault that you used sloppy language, if you indeed meant something else.

  4. #194
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    So.... you do nothing?
    I already stated earlier in this thread what I would do.

  5. #195
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I already stated earlier in this thread what I would do.
    But how could you? The ends you seek to reach do not justify the means you would take to get there.

  6. #196
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    But how could you? The ends you seek to reach do not justify the means you would take to get there.
    You typed:

    'He said the means NEVER justify the ends.'

    I NEVER said such a thing...yet you stated that I did.

    You did not say I 'meant'. You said I 'said'...in a matter-of-fact manner.

    If you insist on misrepresenting my words then we have nothing to say to each other.

    Good day.

  7. #197
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    I'm sorry, are you claiming you didn't say this?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    To me, the ends NEVER justify the means.
    link

  8. #198
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I'm sorry, are you claiming you didn't say this?



    link
    I will state this one last time.

    I said 'the ends never justify the means' (which is a turn on a common phrase).

    You typed (that I said):

    ''He said the means NEVER justify the ends.'

    You stated I said something that I didn't.

    I cannot fathom why you are having trouble grasping this.

    If you wish to libel me, you shall not talk with me...merely at me.


    Good day.

  9. #199
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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I will state this one last time.

    I said 'the ends never justify the means' (which is a turn on a common phrase).

    You typed (that I said):

    ''He said the means NEVER justify the ends.'
    You are right - I accidentally flipped that. You stated that the ends never justified the means. Which leaves you with exactly the problem I have described - that you can take no action, for nothing is justifiable.

    If you wish to state that certain ends do not justify certain means, then that is a specific relative value claim that one can defend. But to apply the absolute form that you have is self-defeating.

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    Re: What should we do with the Guantanamo prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You are right - I accidentally flipped that. You stated that the ends never justified the means. Which leaves you with exactly the problem I have described - that you can take no action, for nothing is justifiable.

    If you wish to state that certain ends do not justify certain means, then that is a specific relative value claim that one can defend. But to apply the absolute form that you have is self-defeating.
    It is a turn of a common phrase.


    'Prov. You can use bad or immoral methods as long as you accomplish something good by using them.'

    The end justifies the means - Idioms - by the Free Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    My point was/is that to use bad/immoral methods to try to achieve a 'good' result is never justified.

    You disagree - fine.

    But I do not.

    Can I prove it absolutely - of course not.

    But I believe it to be so, nonetheless.

    So much so, that I feel to state it in a matter-of-fact manner is justified - all things considered.
    Last edited by DA60; 12-28-13 at 03:10 AM.

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