View Poll Results: Is socialism possible in the United States

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  • Yes. Absolutely.

    16 22.22%
  • Yes if the majority of people supported it

    5 6.94%
  • Yes but not now

    2 2.78%
  • No. Socialism never works.

    34 47.22%
  • No because people would never accept it

    9 12.50%
  • other

    6 8.33%
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Thread: Is socialism realistic?

  1. #81
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    Re: Is socialism realistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Socialism is the worker direct control of the means of production. This can be via the state but if the state owns it the workers or citizens at large must have democratic control of that industry under state control.
    Which sounds great on paper...

    ...but there is a reason we don't let children vote on what to have for supper. Please, pardon the inference, and I mean no disrespect by referring to children, but "workers" don't have a clue how to run things unless specifically trained and/or educated to be managers. There is a reason why entire fields of academic study are devoted to this one specific branch. Letting people who don't really know why or how things work call the shots is tantamount to letting a child pick their dinner every night. You're going to get pizza and icecream, right up until that kid drops dead from diabetes.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  2. #82
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    Re: Is socialism realistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    What I mean is socialism.
    1
    : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
    2
    a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
    b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
    Based on this definition - no. People would not accept it.

  3. #83
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    Re: Is socialism realistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Which sounds great on paper...

    ...but there is a reason we don't let children vote on what to have for supper. Please, pardon the inference, and I mean no disrespect by referring to children, but "workers" don't have a clue how to run things unless specifically trained and/or educated to be managers. There is a reason why entire fields of academic study are devoted to this one specific branch. Letting people who don't really know why or how things work call the shots is tantamount to letting a child pick their dinner every night. You're going to get pizza and icecream, right up until that kid drops dead from diabetes.
    They dont know how to run things?
    Tell that to the thousand of cooperative businesses and the Mondragon Corporation.


  4. #84
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    Re: Is socialism realistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    They dont know how to run things?
    Tell that to the thousand of cooperative businesses and the Mondragon Corporation.
    I saw specifically that Mondragon employees democratically vote on pay. What I did not see was:

    Do they vote on tasks?

    Do they vote on the length of the work day?

    Do they vote on who becomes a manager?

    Do they vote on who their CEO is? Or any C-level position?

    Do they vote on which companies can join the co-op?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  5. #85
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    Re: Is socialism realistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Is socialism possible in the United States?
    Actually, you should ask which kind of socialism would work. We have quite a bit of socialism in America today - we are what some term a "Social Democracy":

    Social democracy asserts that the only acceptable constitutional form of government is representative democracy under the rule of law. It promotes extending democratic decision-making beyond political democracy to include economic democracy to guarantee employees and other economic stakeholders sufficient rights of co-determination. It supports a mixed economy that opposes the excesses of capitalism such as inequality, poverty, and oppression of various groups, while rejecting both a totally free market or a fully planned economy. Common social democratic policies include advocacy of universal social rights to attain universally accessible public services such as education, health care, workers' compensation, and other services, including child care and care for the elderly. Social democracy is connected with the trade union labour movement and supports collective bargaining rights for workers.

    Yes, we have a lot of that already, and it works well just like it does in all the other first-world democracies...all of which to significant extent meet the definition of a "socialized democracy".
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Is socialism realistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    I saw specifically that Mondragon employees democratically vote on pay. What I did not see was:

    Do they vote on tasks?
    I do not believe so.
    They vote on what, how, and where to produce.
    They also vote on what to do with the profits.


    Do they vote on the length of the work day?
    No i dont beleive so. They work a standard work day.

    Do they vote on who becomes a manager?
    Yes

    Do they vote on who their CEO is? Or any C-level position?
    Yes.

    Do they vote on which companies can join the co-op
    The company focus's on the area of finance, industry, and retail.
    More info can be found here: Democracy in the Workplace? Spain's Mondragon Corporation Shows Us an Alternative to Capitalism | Alternet


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    Re: Is socialism realistic?

    I don't really know where I was going with those question, but regardless, it needs to be recognized that these companies exist (and continue to exist) while pursuing profit.

    That's kind of an important point, and one completely contrary to the basis of socialism. Profit is the only check with which we can judge success from failure, and through profit do we create efficiency. And while our current capitalist market-based system (not anywhere close to free, but that is another debate entirely) runs with a great amount of inefficiency, it is miles beyond what any socialist or communistic system has ever come close to producing. There is simply no way to motivate people to produce when they are not starving, unless you make them hungry for more stuff. Again, I recognize the inherent inefficiency behind a system that requires consumers to consume, and to produce more than they consume so as to increase consumption, but this is the very basis behind technological advancements like space travel and the internet. Well, also war, but again, another argument. So, while we dither about the evils of capitalism and how consumption is terrible, we aren't currently discussing capitalist famines where 20+ million people died. The only people capitalism has failed to feed are those who do not trade their effort for food. The same can't be said of any attempt at socialism.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  8. #88
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    Re: Is socialism realistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Is socialism possible in the United States?
    Possible? You do understand that a functioning society has to have some form of Socialism right?

    The founders of Democracy had a partially socialist government. How do you think the Athenians funded their military, their roads and great public works?

    The highway system that our economy depends on runs on Socialism. Congressional healthcare is Socialism. Tricare is Socialism. Police, firefighters and teachers are Socialism. The military is Socialism.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Is socialism realistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Possible? You do understand that a functioning society has to have some form of Socialism right?

    The founders of Democracy had a partially socialist government. How do you think the Athenians funded their military, their roads and great public works?

    The highway system that our economy depends on runs on Socialism. Congressional healthcare is Socialism. Tricare is Socialism. Police, firefighters and teachers are Socialism. The military is Socialism.
    Well said!

    And so they will hate you.
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    Re: Is socialism realistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Well said!

    And so they will hate you.
    Yeah, when people who know what socialism is look around we realize that socialism is everywhere. In many respects I think there's too much of it. But again, most people don't even know what socialism is and so they're to ignorant to even know where to look.
    Trump Attacked A Syrian Airfield. Trump will be a one-term president.

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