View Poll Results: Select what represents your view?

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138. You may not vote on this poll
  • I don't agree with Phil's comments and he had no right saying it.

    5 3.62%
  • I don't agree with Phil's comment's but defend his right to say it.

    54 39.13%
  • I agree with Phil's comments and defend his right to say it.

    41 29.71%
  • A&E had no right to suspend Phil.

    3 2.17%
  • A&E has a right to suspend Phil but I don't agree with it.

    51 36.96%
  • A&E has a right to suspend Phil and I agree with it.

    32 23.19%
  • It's a question of "freedom of speech" and very important.

    22 15.94%
  • Phil's beard is too weird, which makes him a slave to fame.

    12 8.70%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Duck Dynasty

  1. #201
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    Re: Duck Dynasty

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The reality is that everyone is tolerant of bigotry, it just depends on their moral belief of whether or not that bigotry is justified. You demonstrate this wonderfully here. You demonstrate a clear cut intolerance of those that share a different opinion than yourself, as have others on this thread. However, you morally feel your bigotry is justified because you feel the target of your bigotry is morally bad...thus it justifies your bigotry to you.

    Which is frankly no different than the staunch christians who justify their bigotry towards homosexuality. They too, just like you, base it off their own moral view and code and judge the situation based on that.

    That's the funy thing when people throw out words like bigotry or discrimination or other such things as some kind of universal "bad" word. They're not inherently bad, it largely depends on the context and view point of the individual doing them and how they justify it in their own minds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, bigotry is not "demonstrably wrong"....your clear, unquestioned, indisputable bigotry on display currently that you've defended and proclaimed as just is a shining example of a contradiction between what you said above and what you've said earlier in this thread.

    You are acting completely and utterly bigotted...and you've declared that bigotry to be completely okay because it's aimed at something you find to be "demonstrably wrong". Therefore showing that you DON'T believe bigotry, in and of itself, is demonstrably wrong.
    Very intuitive to pick up the double standard. It's a common practice for extremists to justify their condemnation of something with the same methods, not noting the hypocrisy.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  2. #202
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    Re: Duck Dynasty

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Of course the conservative/religious viewpoint "feels suppressed." A rampant persecution complex is a hallmark of modern American "conservatism."

    Both sides like to condemn each other in some attempt to appear more righteous than the other.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  3. #203
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    Ikari's Avatar
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    Re: Duck Dynasty

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    You're on track with what it means and how it's being played out. But the Robertson's are representative of a conservative/religious view point that feels suppressed and afraid to speak out due to the politically charged nature of the issue. Some say it's pure social bigotry, while others believe it's only an expression about commending positive concepts. The less credence the opponents give to the comments the less effect they have.
    Everyone is constrained by the consumer habits of all of us. And if someone says something, people are free to protest and not buy a product, the company will likely listen to consumer demand. It's not that one should be afraid to speak, but we should know that actions have consequences and if your job is tied to consumer demand and consumption, if you piss them off or make them uncomfortable than you may experience some negative repercussions.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #204
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    Re: Duck Dynasty

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    You're on track with what it means and how it's being played out. But the Robertson's are representative of a conservative/religious view point that feels suppressed and afraid to speak out due to the politically charged nature of the issue. Some say it's pure social bigotry, while others believe it's only an expression about commending positive concepts. The less credence the opponents give to the comments the less effect they have.
    Add to the mix a rejection of religious fundamentalism that feels important. Fundamentalists are looking less like entertaining loons and more like potential problems- Elmer Gantry meets the Order. True or not, the potential for religious nuts to turn violent is unsettling these days.
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
    -John Stuart Mill-

  5. #205
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    Re: Duck Dynasty

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Everyone is constrained by the consumer habits of all of us. And if someone says something, people are free to protest and not buy a product, the company will likely listen to consumer demand. It's not that one should be afraid to speak, but we should know that actions have consequences and if your job is tied to consumer demand and consumption, if you piss them off or make them uncomfortable than you may experience some negative repercussions.
    There seems to be a fairly equal amount of positive and negative feedback from Robertson's comments. It's not going to hurt his core base of supporters or overall level of comfortable wealth.

    I'm not that surprised of what an intense response from both sides of the issue took on. The obvious part seems to be that 'he had a right to say it and A&E had a right to respond', though I am shocked with how many from the poll actually agree with what he said. I believed the conservative base supported his right to expression but necessarily the tone of his message.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  6. #206
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    Re: Duck Dynasty

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    There seems to be a fairly equal amount of positive and negative feedback from Robertson's comments. It's not going to hurt his core base of supporters or overall level of comfortable wealth.

    I'm not that surprised of what an intense response from both sides of the issue took on. The obvious part seems to be that 'he had a right to say it and A&E had a right to respond', though I am shocked with how many from the poll actually agree with what he said. I believed the conservative base supported his right to expression but necessarily the tone of his message.
    I'm a cynic, and as such, I think this was mostly a ploy to drum up controversy and viewership. A&E won't drop Robertson if it will cost them money.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #207
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    Re: Duck Dynasty

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Add to the mix a rejection of religious fundamentalism that feels important. Fundamentalists are looking less like entertaining loons and more like potential problems- Elmer Gantry meets the Order. True or not, the potential for religious nuts to turn violent is unsettling these days.
    There's definitely a confusing of political points being more important than the humanity they're created to serve. Both sides seem to forget that underneath it all the priority is a peaceful form of social order and respect for the rule of law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I'm a cynic, and as such, I think this was mostly a ploy to drum up controversy and viewership. A&E won't drop Robertson if it will cost them money.
    I don't believe it was an organized corporate plot as much as a TV personality losing perspective. He doesn't seem to care as much about the show as espousing his fundamentalist views or didn't believe there would be much of a response.

    I agree though that A&E won't drop him because they suspect that by next filming season in mid 2014 the whole thing will blow over.
    Last edited by grip; 12-24-13 at 11:06 PM.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  8. #208
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    Re: Duck Dynasty

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    What do you think Phil Robertson should have done different, if anything?
    I say nothing. A&E knew what they were getting into when they got the Robertson family for their show. It wasn't like they got some San Francisco family and they said what Robertson said about homosexuality. I do agree with his comments regarding homosexuality. At the same time I think its hypocritical of those who were demanding that Martin Bashir be fired when they are defending Roberton's right to say what he said or vice versa. Also its stupid to worry about what someone said in a show when you do not watch that show and or not that show's target audience. If A&E wants to throw away money by essentially getting rid of their Duck Dynasty show then let them, I am sure someone else will pick them up.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #209
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    Re: Duck Dynasty

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    What do you think Phil Robertson should have done different, if anything?
    1) I don't give a **** about Duck Dynasty or reality TV in general because it's an oxymoron.

    2) Disagree with what Phil Robertson said because it's moronic, agree he has the right to say it.

    3) Also agree that Robertson has the right to deal with the consequences of his actions and A&E has the right to do whatever they want with him - if those comments were made in any other setting or at a normal workplace he'd face some kind of discipline. If those comments had been made about race or sex instead of homosexuality mostly everyone would be outraged. That being said DD is a ratings machine and I think he'll return to the show sooner rather than later. It's always about the money.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  10. #210
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    Re: Duck Dynasty

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The reality is that everyone is tolerant of bigotry, it just depends on their moral belief of whether or not that bigotry is justified. You demonstrate this wonderfully here. You demonstrate a clear cut intolerance of those that share a different opinion than yourself, as have others on this thread. However, you morally feel your bigotry is justified because you feel the target of your bigotry is morally bad...thus it justifies your bigotry to you.

    Which is frankly no different than the staunch christians who justify their bigotry towards homosexuality. They too, just like you, base it off their own moral view and code and judge the situation based on that.

    That's the funy thing when people throw out words like bigotry or discrimination or other such things as some kind of universal "bad" word. They're not inherently bad, it largely depends on the context and view point of the individual doing them and how they justify it in their own minds.
    There you go again, with your false equivalence. So, I can say "Niggers oughta be rounded up and put back on the plantation, like god wants them to be", and anyone who calls me an asshole is equivalently as bigotted as I am?
    Last edited by Dezaad; 12-24-13 at 11:54 PM.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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