• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Legal drinking age?

What should the legal drinking age be?

  • Bring back Prohibition.

    Votes: 4 4.3%

  • Older than 21. Raise it even higher!

    Votes: 2 2.2%

  • Leave it at 21 (in the USA).

    Votes: 17 18.5%

  • 20

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 19

    Votes: 1 1.1%

  • 18

    Votes: 44 47.8%

  • 17

    Votes: 2 2.2%

  • 16

    Votes: 4 4.3%

  • Below 16.

    Votes: 3 3.3%

  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 15 16.3%
  • Total voters
    92
Youth Drinking Worse in Europe than U.S., Study Says | The Partnership at Drugfree.org

European teenagers drink more alcohol more often than their American counterparts, and get drunk more frequently, as well, according to researchers from the PIRE Prevention Research Center.

Philanthropy News Network reported Nov. 17 that researchers said data on youths ages 15-16 from 35 European countries showed that every nation in Europe except Turkey had higher teen binge-drinking rates than the U.S.

“The claim that Europeans learn to drink moderately and safely in a family setting has been used by many in the United States to argue for lowering the drinking age,” said report author Joel Grube. “But our research shows that premise is a myth. Easy access to alcohol seems to allow young people to drink heavily and in a risky fashion, whether in Europe or the United States. Raising the drinking age in the United States has been an extremely effective public health and safety policy. Based on our research, weakening that policy would be a serious mistake.”

The teen binge-drinking rate in the U.S. is about 22 percent, compared to 60 percent in Denmark, 57 percent in Germany, 54 percent in Great Britain, 34 percent in Italy, and 28 percent in France, the PIRE report said.

The study data came from the European School Survey Project on Alcohol and Other Drugs and the U.S. Monitoring the Future survey. The report, “Youth drinking rates and problems: A comparison of European countries and the United States,” is available online.
Click to expand...
 
Such as the Eastern and Southern European countries.
A huge demographic whose immigration was opposed by Southern USA conservatives in the 1920s during prohibition.
Prohibition favored by said southern cons.
The very same cons who hated Catholics who happened to be a lot of those drinkers.
But I musn't speak of these things and the 3 magic letters .
Goshin said:
Someone from any of several European countries where children are allowed to drink, and where it isn't a problem, perhaps.
Click to expand...
 
ChrisL said:
Don't forget that alcohol is LITERALLY a poison. When you drink alcohol, you are actually poisoning yourself, hence the "high."
Click to expand...
Well sure, in fact most medicines are a poison of some type as well. Alcohol has it's place in society, the idea is to make sure that it's place is one of responsible use.
 
shrubnose said:
The USA has picked 21 as the age to let people start buying alcohol and that will likely not change anytime soon.
Click to expand...
The U.S. didn't choose that, D.C. did. The federal had to force the states to comply by holding their highway funding hostage, that isn't "choice".
 
ChrisL said:
The fact is that kids here in America like to party. In places like Russia where there is really no enforced drinking age, alcoholism is a HUGE problem.
Click to expand...
It's been a huge problem in Russia, but a lot of that if I had to guess would be the extreme poverty of the country. Russia also has a pretty big hard drug problem as well, they likewise ban the use like the U.S.

To me it's a cultural issue. Demystifying the use of alcohol to me is more effective, it's just an opinion though.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Well sure, in fact most medicines are a poison of some type as well. Alcohol has it's place in society, the idea is to make sure that it's place is one of responsible use.
Click to expand...

I don't think allowing children to consume it is responsible at all. Adults, sure, let them drown themselves in it if they want. I couldn't care less.
 
LaMidRighter said:
It's been a huge problem in Russia, but a lot of that if I had to guess would be the extreme poverty of the country. Russia also has a pretty big hard drug problem as well, they likewise ban the use like the U.S.

To me it's a cultural issue. Demystifying the use of alcohol to me is more effective, it's just an opinion though.
Click to expand...

I posted a link on one of the previous pages about how it is a problem in most European countries with lower drinking ages.
 
Then we're back to 50 different state laws and 50 different quasi-countries.
Interstate drivers will now have to pass 50 different tests instead of one for age.

And federal marijuana laws are a decade away, IMO .

LaMidRighter said:
The U.S. didn't choose that, D.C. did. The federal had to force the states to comply by holding their highway funding hostage, that isn't "choice".
Click to expand...
 
ChrisL said:
I don't think allowing children to consume it is responsible at all. Adults, sure, let them drown themselves in it if they want. I couldn't care less.
Click to expand...
Children shouldn't be allowed to freely consume alcohol, however if a parent wants to give them a sip or so of wine occasionally I don't see a problem with it. The argument though is how can one allow an 18 year old to make some adult decisions, call them an adult at that age with all consequences for being an adult included, and then say "But you're only a partial adult" regarding certain adult behaviors like drinking, gambling, etc.
 
NIMBY said:
Then we're back to 50 different state laws and 50 different quasi-countries.
Interstate drivers will now have to pass 50 different tests instead of one for age.

And federal marijuana laws are a decade away, IMO .
Click to expand...
Good, the federal was always to be subservient to the states in this republic, not the other way around. The federal has no authority to pass minimum ages for consumption of products, or prohibition, they just took it.
 
ChrisL said:
I posted a link on one of the previous pages about how it is a problem in most European countries with lower drinking ages.
Click to expand...
Every country has some kind of problem with drinking, it is an addictive substance. The difference is in scale, the U.S. has a huge problem with alcoholism but it is one of those issues that is largely ignored, binge drinking in the U.S. is at an all time high according to just about every source I've read.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Every country has some kind of problem with drinking, it is an addictive substance. The difference is in scale, the U.S. has a huge problem with alcoholism but it is one of those issues that is largely ignored, binge drinking in the U.S. is at an all time high according to just about every source I've read.
Click to expand...

Not according to my link. I'm posting it again for your convenience.

Youth Drinking Worse in Europe than U.S., Study Says | The Partnership at Drugfree.org

European teenagers drink more alcohol more often than their American counterparts, and get drunk more frequently, as well, according to researchers from the PIRE Prevention Research Center.

Philanthropy News Network reported Nov. 17 that researchers said data on youths ages 15-16 from 35 European countries showed that every nation in Europe except Turkey had higher teen binge-drinking rates than the U.S.

“The claim that Europeans learn to drink moderately and safely in a family setting has been used by many in the United States to argue for lowering the drinking age,” said report author Joel Grube. “But our research shows that premise is a myth. Easy access to alcohol seems to allow young people to drink heavily and in a risky fashion, whether in Europe or the United States. Raising the drinking age in the United States has been an extremely effective public health and safety policy. Based on our research, weakening that policy would be a serious mistake.”
The teen binge-drinking rate in the U.S. is about 22 percent, compared to 60 percent in Denmark, 57 percent in Germany, 54 percent in Great Britain, 34 percent in Italy, and 28 percent in France, the PIRE report said.

The study data came from the European School Survey Project on Alcohol and Other Drugs and the U.S. Monitoring the Future survey. The report, “Youth drinking rates and problems: A comparison of European countries and the United States,” is available online.
Click to expand...

Here is another link to a study that shows that the belief that teens drink more moderately in European countries is a myth.

http://www.udetc.org/documents/YouthDrinkingRatesAndProblems.pdf

Do European youth actually drink less and experience fewer problems than their American counterparts? Research demonstrates that this is not the case. In fact, in comparison with young people in the United States, a greater percentage of young people from nearly all European countries report drinking in the past 30 days; A majority of the European countries have higher intoxication rates among young people than do youth from the United States; and For a majority of these European countries, a greater percentage of young people report having been intoxicated before the age of 13. Based on this analysis, the comparison of drinking rates and alcohol-related problems among young people in the United States and in European countries does not provide support for lowering the U.S. minimum drinking age or for the implementation of programs to teach responsible drinking to young people.
Click to expand...
 
ChrisL said:
Not according to my link. I'm posting it again for your convenience.

Youth Drinking Worse in Europe than U.S., Study Says | The Partnership at Drugfree.org



Here is another link to a study that shows that the belief that teens drink more moderately in European countries is a myth.

http://www.udetc.org/documents/YouthDrinkingRatesAndProblems.pdf
Click to expand...
I don't doubt there are contrary studies and findings to what I have read. Youth drinking in those countries is more likely to be a matter of record and right out in the open, in the U.S. these kids go on benders because it's actually available to them at the time. Either way, it's not acceptable to me to have a "graduated adulthood".
 
LaMidRighter said:
I don't doubt there are contrary studies and findings to what I have read. Youth drinking in those countries is more likely to be a matter of record and right out in the open, in the U.S. these kids go on benders because it's actually available to them at the time. Either way, it's not acceptable to me to have a "graduated adulthood".
Click to expand...

Why? .
 
LaMidRighter said:
I don't doubt there are contrary studies and findings to what I have read. Youth drinking in those countries is more likely to be a matter of record and right out in the open, in the U.S. these kids go on benders because it's actually available to them at the time. Either way, it's not acceptable to me to have a "graduated adulthood".
Click to expand...

And no there are not just "some" contrary findings. Google it for yourself. It is a myth that teens in Europe consume less alcohol and are more responsible with their drinking. It's just not true. Here is some MORE evidence for you.

http://resources.prev.org/documents/ESPAD.pdf
 
ChrisL said:
Why? .
Click to expand...
Because you are either an adult or you are not. The federal loves getting taxes from people when they enter into contracts, marry, and they love having the extra three years of a kid's life available to them from 18-21, but then when it comes down to granting them full adulthood it's "thanks for your adult contributions, but you aren't adult enough to be considered a full adult just yet". It's simple, if an eighteen year old can make one adult decision, they must be trusted in full.
 
ChrisL said:
No one is talking about banning alcohol mo's. I'm talking about not lowering and perhaps raising the drinking age. A lot of adults can't handle their alcohol. What kind of tard would think children could?
Click to expand...

:shrug: we give car keys to 15 year olds, recognizing that cars are dangerous and so the best time for them to learn is under the supervision of responsible adults. Cars are more dangerous than alcohol, but the same general lesson would seem to apply.

Like I said earlier in the thread, that is your last resort argument, that it's nutritious. There are PLENTY of other sources of nutrition. Alcohol is not a necessity.
Click to expand...

:shrug: I dont know if I would argue that there aren't other sources of nutrition - and I would agree alcohol isn't necessary for healthy living. But on top of pure individual and social enjoyment, it does seem to have health benefits.

Alcohol is not bad. Abuse of alcohol is bad. Here in this country plenty of people abuse alcohol, sure. More abuse sugars and fats - which are also not bad in and of themselves. Let me know when you are willing to argue for banning cookies from kids and replacing them with nuts on the basis that kids can't decide how many cookie are healthy, and so should instead be left to discover that for themselves when they are in college or working after they leave the house.



The problem with your argument is that it is self-defeating. If teenagers are more impulsive and less prone to good decision-making, then that requires more supervision and deliberate effort to teach them good lessons, not less.
 
ChrisL said:
And no there are not just "some" contrary findings. Google it for yourself. It is a myth that teens in Europe consume less alcohol and are more responsible with their drinking. It's just not true. Here is some MORE evidence for you.

http://resources.prev.org/documents/ESPAD.pdf
Click to expand...
Causation, they have access to it, they may have more alcohol but be more prone to moderation. IOW the binge drinking comes from learned behaviors attributed to the "get it while you can" mentality of the additional years that the federal has established. In fact, U.S. binge drinking is up.
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: we give car keys to 15 year olds, recognizing that cars are dangerous and so the best time for them to learn is under the supervision of responsible adults. Cars are more dangerous than alcohol, but the same general lesson would seem to apply.
Click to expand...

Cars serve a purpose besides getting high and do NOT change your mentation.

:shrug: I dont know if I would argue that there aren't other sources of nutrition - and I would agree alcohol isn't necessary for healthy living. But on top of pure individual and social enjoyment, it does seem to have health benefits.
Click to expand...

For ADULT enjoyment.

Alcohol is not bad. Abuse of alcohol is bad. Here in this country plenty of people abuse alcohol, sure. More abuse sugars and fats - which are also not bad in and of themselves. Let me know when you are willing to argue for banning cookies from kids and replacing them with nuts on the basis that kids can't decide how many cookie are healthy, and so should instead be left to discover that for themselves when they are in college or working after they leave the house.
Click to expand...

There is NO way to tell who will be an abuser and who will not. Cookies do NOT change your mentation.



The problem with your argument is that it is self-defeating. If teenagers are more impulsive and less prone to good decision-making, then that requires more supervision and deliberate effort to teach them good lessons, not less.
Click to expand...

No, your argument is. You have YET to post anything to back your position except for your own suppositions which mean absolutely nothing.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Causation, they have access to it, they may have more alcohol but be more prone to moderation. IOW the binge drinking comes from learned behaviors attributed to the "get it while you can" mentality of the additional years that the federal has established. In fact, U.S. binge drinking is up.
Click to expand...

They are not more prone to moderation. That is a myth and a lie.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Causation, they have access to it, they may have more alcohol but be more prone to moderation. IOW the binge drinking comes from learned behaviors attributed to the "get it while you can" mentality of the additional years that the federal has established. In fact, U.S. binge drinking is up.
Click to expand...

Here is ANOTHER article about the problems in European countries with young people binge drinking. Now this is about the 5th article/study I've posted.

British teenagers are the binge-drinking champions of Europe | Mail Online
 
ChrisL said:
Here is ANOTHER article about the problems in European countries with young people binge drinking. Now this is about the 5th article/study I've posted.

British teenagers are the binge-drinking champions of Europe | Mail Online
Click to expand...
I never mentioned the British, rather the French as I am more familiar with it. Frankly I don't care what the studies say to be honest but stated that the ones I have run across do not support any benefits to creating a double standard for adults based upon age. As far as I am concerned people should be full adults at 18 or 21 and that should be that, pick one and let's move on IMO. If the drunk driving becomes a problem, increase the penalties.
 
ChrisL said:
Cars serve a purpose besides getting high and do NOT change your mentation.
Click to expand...

So? That does not change at all the fact that they are more dangerous than alcohol, which is why we wisely ensure that teenagers learn how to handle them under responsible adult supervision. If something is dangerous, we want teenagers to learn about it under responsible adult supervision because that is the wise course of action to take.

Nor is alcohol's purpose restricted to "getting high". For one thing, alcohol is a depressant.

For ADULT enjoyment.
Click to expand...

Sure. Such as, for example, people who can vote and fight and lead others in wars.

There is NO way to tell who will be an abuser and who will not
Click to expand...

Sure there is - plenty of social factors correlate with alcohol abuse; not least likely being the environment in which drinking begins and occurs. When you are introduced to alcohol at binge parties, you are more likely to abuse it than when you are introduced to it because your parents let you have a glass of wine with christmas dinner.

Cookies do NOT change your mentation.
Click to expand...

So? That does not alter at all the fact that they fit perfectly under your formula.

No, your argument is
Click to expand...

:doh Okay.

Please tell me why, if teenagers are more impulsive and less prone to good decision-making, then that does not require more supervision and deliberate effort to teach them good lessons. I'm all ears as to why I would want my children learning about alcohol at a binge-party rather than from me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom