View Poll Results: Was Nelson Mandela a terrorist or a freedom fighter? Or other (please explain)

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  • Freedom Fighter

    25 55.56%
  • Terrorist

    11 24.44%
  • Other (please explain)

    9 20.00%
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Thread: Mandela, Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?

  1. #41
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    Re: Mandela, Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    The problems in South Africa today aren't Mandela's fault but the NAC fault. If the NAC even moves a few inches to the left, South Africa will become another Zimbabwe.

    But if I do find that column, I'll post it. Kinda enjoying reading all of the South Africa forums. They look at things differently.
    The ANC is very, very sad. Essentially the National Party was this highly corrupt political party whose real ideology was crony capitalism. They used racial bigotry to hide their true motives, which was to provide cheap black labor for the mines and other industries, while hiding behind racism and religion to keep the support of bigoted whites and maintain their own power, which if it was shown to be based on corrupt economic concerns would have been totally unjustifiable even for them. Case in point how they grandfathered in East Asian businessmen as white, while oppressing Indians in their own nation. If they were really committed to their ideology they would have never done this, but the Japanese had money so white supremacy sort of went out the window. The same was true of their allies with various corrupt black regimes elsewhere in Africa that they could hide behind and do their business deals.

    Now the ANC comes along and is basically the exact same thing, but instead of hiding behind Boer supremacy and extreme Dutch reformed conservatism they hide behind black pride and "social democracy" or whatever ideology they claim to be. In the end though the ANC is really just a bunch of crony capitalists, the same thing as the Nationals in power. Mandela's main failure is that he had all this moral authority during his lifetime and was treated as the grandfather of the nation, and was so widely revered that he could have come out and said something about this but didn't.

    I admire some of what Nelson Mandela did in his lifetime, and think we should honor the man for many things, including how forgiving he was to those who oppressed him, but he was by no means perfect. Even so nobody is perfect. In spite of this fault it doesn't mean I think he was a terrible person. In the same way I do not judge George Washington by the fact he owned slaves. I am sad that he had a moral blind spot on that issue, but so did many people at the time. Even so I honor him as the father of our country and one of its greatest presidents, who had the power essentially to rule as a king but voluntarily stepped down after two terms, setting a precedent. Plenty of revolutions happened in Latin America in the early 19th century where their leaders did the opposite, and it set a precedent for 200 years of dictators and revolution. So yes Mandela has this black mark as do many of our own founders, but I still admire him.

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    Re: Mandela, Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    What about US imperalism?
    The progressive Theodore Roosevelt said it was the continuation of America's "Manifest Destiny."

    If you are clueless, it's a progressive thing. read this book. -> The Imperial Cruise: A Secret History of Empire and War: James Bradley: Amazon.com: Books

  3. #43
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    Re: Mandela, Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    The progressive Theodore Roosevelt said it was the continuation of America's "Manifest Destiny."

    If you are clueless, it's a progressive thing. read this book. -> The Imperial Cruise: A Secret History of Empire and War: James Bradley: Amazon.com: Books
    So? Are "progressives" supposedly all clear of wrong doing? What about Eisenhower, LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2?


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    Re: Mandela, Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?

    What are the South Africans saying ?
    The American media has ignored South Africa for the past twenty years. Most Americans are clueless and younger South Africans have nothing to compare South Africa today. What they see is what they believe is the norm.

    Excerpt:

    >" After his organization had placed bombs on city sidewalks, in bars and restaurants and killed thousands of blacks in internecine power struggles, including by the infamous necklace method, Mandela was praised for preaching moderation and “reconciliation”. Mandela presided over hordes of sadists wantonly looting, burning and killing their fellows. Such incidence of violence and destruction was, as usual, reinterpreted and recoded by guilt-complexed white journalists and pundits as being pleas for democracy and togetherness. Or free housing, affirmative action and racial quotas in sport, all of which South African blacks deserve in copious amounts, as liberals and leftists clamorously assure us. Of course, riots, violence and sadism continue unabated in South Africa, but because there is now a black government and the perpetrators of such violence are black too, any criticism of such behaviour is expressed in muted tones, if at all..."<

    The begaining of the article:

    Mandela: muti for white guilt

    >" Ever since Nelson Mandela died, but even before, one was utterly flabbergasted before the intensity of media fervour pouring out en hommage to the Big Man. In Africa, of course, there are all kinds of theories about Big Men, some more politically correct than others. The tribal elder meets the Soviet personality cult, and we get Idi Amin Dada. Or Charles Taylor. Or Robert Mugabe.

    If there is one thing I can stand even less than African Big Men, it is British journalists convulsing on the ground in effusive praise of them. Who still remembers the blasts of praise from Fleet Street when Mugabe assumed power in the ex-Rhodesia? For much of the past ten days while South Africa lit the long-awaited Big Candle, visible from outer space without a doubt, we had to endure near-hysterical outpourings exalting the deceased ex-terrorist. One such scribe from the island north of the Continent – I forget which, there were so many this week – wrote: “Mandela could have been president for life but he chose to stay a single term, for the sake of democracy in Africa!”

    Democracy in Africa. Oh, yes. If Mandela’s successor at the helm of this decaying country, Thabo Mbeki, were to be believed, democracy was invented in Africa. No less. The point is that there is now such an Afrocentric phantasmagoria, cultivated in Britain and the United States, that anything is now possible, even Mbeki’s “African century”. The notion that Africa will come to dominate the globe economically, politically and militarily, was first articulated by another African Big Man, born Joseph-Desiré Mobutu but whose full regal appellation afterwards became Mobutu Sese Seko Kuku Ngbendu wa Za Banga..."<

    Continue -> Mandela: muti for white guilt | praag.org

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    Re: Mandela, Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So? Are "progressives" supposedly all clear of wrong doing? What about Eisenhower, LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2?
    The progressives I'm referring to are the true progressives who were American nationalists or close to nationalist socialist. Before 1965, probably close to 90% of all Americans were nationalist.

    Todays progressives aren't true progressives but something else hiding behind the progressive label. They should call themselves neo-progressives because they have hardly anything in common with the original progressive movement.

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    Re: Mandela, Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    What are the South Africans saying ?
    The American media has ignored South Africa for the past twenty years. Most Americans are clueless and younger South Africans have nothing to compare South Africa today. What they see is what they believe is the norm.

    Excerpt:

    >" After his organization had placed bombs on city sidewalks, in bars and restaurants and killed thousands of blacks in internecine power struggles, including by the infamous necklace method, Mandela was praised for preaching moderation and “reconciliation”. Mandela presided over hordes of sadists wantonly looting, burning and killing their fellows. Such incidence of violence and destruction was, as usual, reinterpreted and recoded by guilt-complexed white journalists and pundits as being pleas for democracy and togetherness. Or free housing, affirmative action and racial quotas in sport, all of which South African blacks deserve in copious amounts, as liberals and leftists clamorously assure us. Of course, riots, violence and sadism continue unabated in South Africa, but because there is now a black government and the perpetrators of such violence are black too, any criticism of such behaviour is expressed in muted tones, if at all..."<

    The begaining of the article:

    Mandela: muti for white guilt

    >" Ever since Nelson Mandela died, but even before, one was utterly flabbergasted before the intensity of media fervour pouring out en hommage to the Big Man. In Africa, of course, there are all kinds of theories about Big Men, some more politically correct than others. The tribal elder meets the Soviet personality cult, and we get Idi Amin Dada. Or Charles Taylor. Or Robert Mugabe.

    If there is one thing I can stand even less than African Big Men, it is British journalists convulsing on the ground in effusive praise of them. Who still remembers the blasts of praise from Fleet Street when Mugabe assumed power in the ex-Rhodesia? For much of the past ten days while South Africa lit the long-awaited Big Candle, visible from outer space without a doubt, we had to endure near-hysterical outpourings exalting the deceased ex-terrorist. One such scribe from the island north of the Continent – I forget which, there were so many this week – wrote: “Mandela could have been president for life but he chose to stay a single term, for the sake of democracy in Africa!”

    Democracy in Africa. Oh, yes. If Mandela’s successor at the helm of this decaying country, Thabo Mbeki, were to be believed, democracy was invented in Africa. No less. The point is that there is now such an Afrocentric phantasmagoria, cultivated in Britain and the United States, that anything is now possible, even Mbeki’s “African century”. The notion that Africa will come to dominate the globe economically, politically and militarily, was first articulated by another African Big Man, born Joseph-Desiré Mobutu but whose full regal appellation afterwards became Mobutu Sese Seko Kuku Ngbendu wa Za Banga..."<

    Continue -> Mandela: muti for white guilt | praag.org
    Remember when minorities finally have equality its always then "reverse racism" on the once oppressor.. Right APACHERAT?


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    Re: Mandela, Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    The progressives I'm referring to are the true progressives who were American nationalists or close to nationalist socialist. Before 1965, probably close to 90% of all Americans were nationalist.
    So what does that make conservative nationalists? Nationalist fascist? I mean c''mon we wanna play this ignorant game?


    Todays progressives aren't true progressives but something else hiding behind the progressive label. They should call themselves neo-progressives because they have hardly anything in common with the original progressive movement.
    Yes coming from the person who thinks marxists and the Nazis were one of the same. The great political philosopher like yourself should know all of this.

    But dont mind me. Because you never answer the questions i ask you.


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    Re: Mandela, Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Remember when minorities finally have equality its always then "reverse racism" on the once oppressor.. Right APACHERAT?
    Have you ever been to New Caledonia ?

    Apartheid was practiced in New Caledonia for a lot longer than in South Africa.

    It's been well over thirty years since I last been to New Caledonia, and there has been a couple of uprisings since then. But I didn't see any racism or reverse racism.

    Funny, I still remember that Legionnaire when we were declaring are weapons with customs and he said "What's with you Americans and always having guns" ?

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    Re: Mandela, Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?

    Once again allow me to point out, Mandela had many admirible qualities, and you cannot expect him to be perfect. It is just like George Washington and slavery, I am sad he did it but I still admire him as a figure. In the same way I admire Mandela for his good side, in spite of some of the bad he did.

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    Re: Mandela, Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Have you ever been to New Caledonia ?

    Apartheid was practiced in New Caledonia for a lot longer than in South Africa.

    It's been well over thirty years since I last been to New Caledonia, and there has been a couple of uprisings since then. But I didn't see any racism or reverse racism.
    Whats this about New Caldeonia? Wait did you just admit it!? That apartheid is ok!?
    Wait whats this about New Caldeonia? Wait? Is this New Caldeonia?

    Funny, I still remember that Legionnaire when we were declaring are weapons with customs and he said "What's with you Americans and always having guns" ?
    Wait are you moving the goal posts again?
    Did you still not answer my question? I believe you still havent.


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