2016 Republican Primary

Tothian · Dec 17, 2013

Durin said:
Cruz, Paul, Huckabee, Perry and Santorum are unelectable in a national election. Sorry folks, but it is the truth. Unless Democrats nominate Kucinich or something, but against Hillary not a one of them will win.

Hunstman can never win a GOP primary. I know that they do nominate moderates but Huntsman is simply too unaplogetically moderate. He's only moved MORE toward the center while people like Romney and McCain moved to the right. I wouldn't be surprised if Huntsman pulls a Charlie Crist and announces he is becoming an Independent or Democrat in the future.

That leaves Rubio, Christie and Ryan. Rubio strikes me as something of a hack, I'm not sure if he has many core convictions. He was a Tea Party guy when it was popular, but now he's getting more moderate because he thinks the Tea Party wave has passed.

Christie I like, he checks most of the the right boxes. His main crime from the far-right's perspective is he hasn't used a conspiratorial tone or questioned Obama's birth certificate. He is elected in a blue state. I'm not sure what all these purists want. Do you really think swing states are going to vote for somebody like Ted Cruz?

Ryan is another good one, but I think he could possibly move up to majority leader or speaker in a future Congress. Of course maybe he is a RINO now, I don't know, I don't keep tabs on who has been excommunicated from the One Holy Church of True Conservatism but I heard some calling him a sell-out a few months ago.

I'm sure you would've said the same thing in 2000 that George Bush was unelectable. Or even more-so in 1980 that Ronald Reagan was the most unelectable candidate against Jimmy Carter! OR, how John McCain was the most electable candidate against Obama in 2008. Or that Mitt Romney was the most electable against Obama!

Admittedly, Huckabee is the most electable - he is experienced, and likeable. Ted Cruz is my favorite. He's also very inspirational but the lying liberal media tries to decide how you will see him. They will try to make him seem unlikeable and unelectable - but they are wrong. Put Ted Cruz - the man who single handedly stood against the masses of corrupt Washington elite to lead the fight to repeal Obamacare - VERSUS the old hag who has been noted for ethics violations every single time (dating back to the Watergate scandal investigation) every time she has been given a position of power - and every single time gets caught trying to cover it up. Especially with the Ben "What difference does it make?" Ghazi scandal. She was a failure of a Secretary of State - and held no leadership positions in the Senate. Put her and Ted Cruz in a debate 1 on 1 - and Ted Cruz will own her in a way that no person was ever owned before.

Common sense is common sense. Even if the media tries to tell you otherwise.

As for Paul Ryan, he voted to raise the debt ceiling in a plan he came up with along with Senator Patty Murray.

Linc · Dec 17, 2013

Tothian said:
But the conservatives/tea party needs to find one conservative candidate united in opposition to the establishment. They need one Governor.

Then why are you pushing Senator Cruz when you want a conservative governor..
As I said yesterday, I'm surprised you guys don't look at Gov. Pence, who held the #3 position iun the House before he ran for governor .

Anagram · Dec 17, 2013

Tothian said:
I'm sure you would've said the same thing in 2000 that George Bush was unelectable. Or even more-so in 1980 that Ronald Reagan was the most unelectable candidate against Jimmy Carter! OR, how John McCain was the most electable candidate against Obama in 2008. Or that Mitt Romney was the most electable against Obama

Of those that ran McCain and Romney were the most electable against Obama. Any Republican would've lost in 2008 and there were slim pickings against Romney last year.

Tothian · Dec 17, 2013

NIMBY said:
Over 30 governors are Republicans and you're complaining?!?!?!

Yep. Of course I am. How many of those "Republicans" as you call them are opposing Obamacare? How many are truly leading the effort to really fight for what they believe in? To protect and defend freedom.

That's the problem with this country. Too much emphasis on titles. Not enough on standing up for what we believe in.

Linc · Dec 17, 2013

Tothian said:
Yep. Of course I am. How many of those "Republicans" as you call them are opposing Obamacare?

At least 25 of those GOP govs have rejected Medicaid and the GOP's own idea, the state exchange..

Tothian · Dec 17, 2013

Anagram said:
Of those that ran McCain and Romney were the most electable against Obama. Any Republican would've lost in 2008 and there were slim pickings against Romney last year.

No. That's a lie - and the fact that they both lost proves it.

Mike Huckabee could have won either time had he been the nominee. Mitt Romney was not viewed as more likeable than Obama. Huckabee is - and wouldn't have made those same gaffes that Romney made. Mitt Romney only had 4 years of being Governor. Obama had 4 years of being President. Mike Huckabee had nearly 10 years of being Governor, and before that, just less than 3 years of being the Lieutenant Governor - elected Arkansas' second Republican as Lieutenant Governor since reconstruction (in a special election in 1993 then [re-]elected to a full term the following year). The last Republican before him was elected in 1966 and served 1 term from 1967 to 1971. Huckabee then became Governor finishing an unexpired term and then elected Governor twice in his own right.

And to disagree with me about that would be to say that Brian Sandoval was unelectable as Governor in Nevada in 2010 because of the unpopularity of his predecessor Jim Gibbons.

You might then reply "Oh, well Brian Sandoval ran against him in the primary and beat him" and that is true. Brian Sandoval won that primary 55% to 27%.

Then comes to questions. Assuming third terms were allowed, and Bush were to seek it - considering his low unpopularity and America's foolish obsession with "electability" rather than standing up for ideals they believe in - he would have had other primary opponents that year and likely not been renominated.

Linc · Dec 17, 2013

Huntsman depends on whether his Dad wants to fut the bill..
We have a hedge-funder billionaire-type in Illinois you may have seen all over the TV..
Rauner is backed by "ALL" big-money in the GOP for governor and he's not even bothering with his primary foes until he needs to..
Rauner's been hammering Quinn on FOX at local commercial, along with sporting events and full-time on E$PN..
I can't see Quinn stopping him, which is why so many GOPs in the state legislature went against their leadership
and voted no on our pension disaster, just to play politics with Rauner..
Check Rauner out with his "phony" Carhartt gear during ads, well-spoken..
He likes vest jackets, just to be "one of the boys"..
IMO, it's a done deal--Gov. Rauner .

Anagram said:
Of those that ran McCain and Romney were the most electable against Obama. Any Republican would've lost in 2008 and there were slim pickings against Romney last year.

Durin · Dec 17, 2013

Anagram said:
Of those that ran McCain and Romney were the most electable against Obama. Any Republican would've lost in 2008 and there were slim pickings against Romney last year.

No Republican could have won in 2008. Romney was very much electable, and came within 3-4 points of Obama. Ultimately Obama had the advantage of incumbancy and Romney was not charismatic. Reagan defeated Carter because he had charisma and even he was more open to compromise than Cruz.

The problem with people like Tothian is they believe there really is a majority of this nation who agrees with the Ted Cruz vision for America, which they do not. There is a majority that will vote for a center-right candidate, but not the far-right. Sometimes I feel we need to give these guys the far-right candidate they want so they see how it works out. I actually hope the GOP nominates Cruz or Paul or somebody like that next time because we can finally have a test case to see if it actually works. I doubt it will, but I will vote for them over Hillary, but if it doesn't how will those who say the GOP needs to become more conservative to win respond?

There is nothing wrong with wanting somebody who agrees with you to be president, but there is a difference between wanting that and it actually being achievable. I respect somebody if they only want somebody as conservative as Cruz, that is their opinion and they are entitled to it. What I can't wrap my mind around is that they actually think it will happen.

Linc · Dec 17, 2013

Tothian said:
No. That's a lie - and the fact that they both lost proves it.

Lies are not policy or who loses an election..
I assure you this poster, who is more conserv than I, does not lie .

Linc · Dec 17, 2013

Tothian said:
Mike Huckabee could have won either time had he been the nominee.

Huckabee is currently being trashed by the same people you are trashing..
Huckabee is being trashed by those trashing Boehner..
Notice how you are wrong on Huckabee..
Notice I did not call you a liar .

clownboy · Dec 17, 2013

Anagram said:
Of those that ran McCain and Romney were the most electable against Obama. Any Republican would've lost in 2008 and there were slim pickings against Romney last year.

I think that Thompson could have if he had stayed in the race and survived the primaries. McCain was a horrible republican mistake. They tied one hand behind their back with that primary choice.

Anagram · Dec 17, 2013

Tothian said:
No. That's a lie - and the fact that they both lost proves it.

No it doesn't. Just because they failed does not mean someone else would've done better.

Mike Huckabee could have won either time had he been the nominee. Mitt Romney was not viewed as more likeable than Obama. Huckabee is - and wouldn't have made those same gaffes that Romney made. Mitt Romney only had 4 years of being Governor. Obama had 4 years of being President. Mike Huckabee had nearly 10 years of being Governor, and before that, just less than 3 years of being the Lieutenant Governor - elected Arkansas' second Republican as Lieutenant Governor since reconstruction (in a special election in 1993 then [re-]elected to a full term the following year). The last Republican before him was elected in 1966 and served 1 term from 1967 to 1971. Huckabee then became Governor finishing an unexpired term and then elected Governor twice in his own right.

Huckabee had his flaws. The social issues he ran on don't play well with the national audience. I doubt he would've done better than McCain.

And to disagree with me about that would be to say that Brian Sandoval was unelectable as Governor in Nevada in 2010 because of the unpopularity of his predecessor Jim Gibbons.

You might then reply "Oh, well Brian Sandoval ran against him in the primary and beat him" and that is true. Brian Sandoval won that primary 55% to 27%.

There was more than the unpopularity of Bush. Obama ran a great campaign in 2008, unlike Rory Reid. The fact that Sandoval also got to run directly against the unpopularity in the primary also helped, which no one in 2008 was able to do. He also ran in a Republican wave year, rather than the Democratic wave year of 2008. Of those running, none would've beaten him or likely done better than McCain.

Then comes to questions. Assuming third terms were allowed, and Bush were to seek it - considering his low unpopularity and America's foolish obsession with "electability" rather than standing up for ideals they believe in - he would have had other primary opponents that year and likely not been renominated.

Electability is important. It shouldn't be the only thing by any means, but it should definitely factor in.

clownboy · Dec 17, 2013

NIMBY said:
Huckabee is currently being trashed by the same people you are trashing..
Huckabee is being trashed by those trashing Boehner..
Notice how you are wrong on Huckabee..
Notice I did not call you a liar .

Huckabee had a huge image problem the first go around, he allowed the dems to typecast him and that's a political no no. And anyone standing with Boehner is going to get trashed and well deserved too. Boehner is the poster boy for RINOs everywhere and the left's best advert for their own candidates. He's what the dems want republicans to be. Beatable at every turn.

Anagram · Dec 17, 2013

clownboy said:
I think that Thompson could have if he had stayed in the race and survived the primaries. McCain was a horrible republican mistake. They tied one hand behind their back with that primary choice.

Thompson wouldn't have. He ran a horrible campaign and was particularly gaffe prone. Huckabee's social issue focus hurts him in a primary election. Ron Paul is seen as too far out on the fringes. Alan Keyes was too far out there and of course we all saw Romney's deficiencies last year. Although he still had a better chance than Santorum, Bachmann, Gingrich, Perry, or Cain would've. The only one I could see being comparable to McCain would be Giuliani, but I seriously doubt he would've won either. 2008 was a perfect storm for the Democrats, its highly unlikely anyone would've beaten Obama.

Linc · Dec 17, 2013

As long as your TEA-wing exists clownboy, we won't be reaching permanent grand-bargains like the one that went down in flames in July of 2011..
I even supported Sen. Coburn's 8-for-1 swap just to get a permanent deal..
Your wing has prevented a balanced budget, which we would have had next year .

clownboy said:
Huckabee had a huge image problem the first go around, he allowed the dems to typecast him and that's a political no no. And anyone standing with Boehner is going to get trashed and well deserved too. Boehner is the poster boy for RINOs everywhere and the left's best advert for their own candidates. He's what the dems want republicans to be. Beatable at every turn.

clownboy · Dec 17, 2013

NIMBY said:
As long as your TEA-wing exists clownboy, we won't be reaching permanent grand-bargains like the one that went down in flames in July of 2011..
I even supported Sen. Coburn's 8-for-1 swap just to get a permanent deal..
Your wing has prevented a balanced budget, which we would have had next year .

As usual you got it wrong. I'm not a tea party member nor do I sympathize with everything they stand for. I'm not a republican either, haven't been for many years now. And again you're wrong about the tea party influence in the house, they are a very, very small minority of house membership and none in leadership (one if you count Cruz as leadership). Nor did the TP stop any sort of balanced budget. There has been no balanced budget proposed by the democrats, not any time in at least the last few decades. Leaves me wondering if you know what a balanced budget actually is.

haymarket · Dec 17, 2013

Tothian said:
I think if the GOP was smarter, they would each find a certain wing of the GOP to represent a certain faction of it.

Be they conservatives, tea party, moderate. For example, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, - are all more Tea Party. Rick Santorum, Mike Huckabee, are more conservative. Chris Christie, Jon Huntsman, Paul Ryan seem to be more moderate.

Rather than dividing the percentage, to ensure that two tea parties don't split the tea party vote within the GOP Primary and get another moderate nominated - rather those in each part of the party should set forth a candidate that best represents their views.

This is only just a strategy, of course. And every candidate or potential candidate should do what they think is right. I understand that the Primary Debates in 2015 will give an example of where each candidates stand in polls before the NH Primary & Iowa Caucus.

The far right needs to unite on one extremist whacko and back him to the hilt. either that or divide up the primaries where they do not compete against each other.

fat chance of a bunch of true believer nut jobs agreeing on either.

clownboy · Dec 17, 2013

haymarket said:
The far right needs to unite on one extremist whacko and back him to the hilt. either that or divide up the primaries where they do not compete against each other.

fat chance of a bunch of true believer nut jobs agreeing on either.

Heh, you're funny. Here you are suggesting the dems don't really believe in what they say and that's how they win elections. :mrgreen:

Durin · Dec 17, 2013

clownboy said:
I think that Thompson could have if he had stayed in the race and survived the primaries. McCain was a horrible republican mistake. They tied one hand behind their back with that primary choice.

Thompson is actually the sort of nominee the GOP needed at the time. The problem with the GOP is it keeps going for somebody tied too much to one "wing" of the party, whether that is the libertarian wing, the social conservative wing, the moderate wing, the business wing, the neocon wing etc. The way I see it they need somebody who sort of straddles them. I still believe the primarily animating force of the GOP is fiscal conservatism and this is what people vote on.

I think what they need is somebody who is fiscally conservative, checks all the right boxes on social issues for the social conservatives but doesn't focus on them, and is sort of in between the libertarian isolationists and neocons on foreign policy. That is Fred Thompson, but I doubt he will ever run again.

Linc · Dec 17, 2013

First you trash Boehner as a RINO, now you deny being in the TEA-party..Good day .

clownboy said:
As usual you got it wrong. I'm not a tea party member nor do I sympathize with everything they stand for. I'm not a republican either, haven't been for many years now. And again you're wrong about the tea party influence in the house, they are a very, very small minority of house membership and none in leadership (one if you count Cruz as leadership). Nor did the TP stop any sort of balanced budget. There has been no balanced budget proposed by the democrats, not any time in at least the last few decades. Leaves me wondering if you know what a balanced budget actually is.

haymarket · Dec 17, 2013

clownboy said:
Heh, you're funny. Here you are suggesting the dems don't really believe in what they say and that's how they win elections. :mrgreen:

There was not one mention of democrats in my post. I am suggesting nothing. My comments were limited to the far right candidates in the GOP.

clownboy · Dec 17, 2013

NIMBY said:
First you trash Boehner as a RINO, now you deny being in the TEA-party..Good day .

Why in your mind must I be Tea Party to believe Boehner is a RINO? I know you're pretty far around the bend to extreme left, but is this really how you folks view the right, through this series of mislabelled boxes?

clownboy · Dec 17, 2013

haymarket said:
There was not one mention of democrats in my post. I am suggesting nothing. My comments were limited to the far right candidates in the GOP.

Heh, by defining the repubs you also defined the dems, their opposition. I'm aware you didn't see it, but as Freud indicates, your slip is showing. :mrgreen:

Navy Pride · Dec 17, 2013

Tothian said:
2016 GOP PRIMARY

I know it's early but it's fun to take the time now to speculate and add thoughts. I want to set up different kinds of the same polls - as I feel that they will be more revealing than only doing it one way.

For example, in some polls, I will have a vote for one. In other polls of the same kind, I'll have a vote for all that you want.

In this one, it'll be a one-option. It seems these polls here are limited to 10 options, so I'm gonna put the most mentioned prospective candidates and top-tier.

Ted Cruz
Rand Paul
Mike Huckabee
Marco Rubio
Chris Christie
Rick Santorum
Rick Perry
Jon Huntsman
Paul Ryan
Other (Please specify)

I think its to early to say.

Tothian · Dec 17, 2013

clownboy said:
I think that Thompson could have if he had stayed in the race and survived the primaries. McCain was a horrible republican mistake. They tied one hand behind their back with that primary choice.

Thompson was a Governor for 14 years - before being the Health & Human Services Secretary for 4 years. He actually just lost a Senate race in Wisconsin in 2012 - a race in which he had originally been leading his opponent.

2016 Republican Primary

REPUBLICANS ONLY PLEASE- YOUR TOP CHOICE FOR 2016 REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR PRESIDENT

Ted Cruz

Rand Paul

Marco Rubio

Mike Huckabee

Chris Christie

Rick Perry

Rick Santorum

Jon Huntsman

Paul Ryan

Other (Please specify)

NIMBY

NIMBY

NIMBY

Member

NIMBY

NIMBY

NIMBY

Member

NIMBY