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If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 36.1%
  • No

    Votes: 19 52.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 11.1%

  • Total voters
    36

radcen

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If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

...does that mean they would be legitimately justified in staging a coup and overthrowing the government?
 
No, the military is under oath to defend the Constitution but unlike what many people think that doesn't mean their personal interpretation of the Constitution.

For example I've literally been told I'm violating my oath by supporting certain policies, or by having certain opinions, or by acknowledging Obama as the CnC, or any number of other equally stupid things.
 
If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

...does that mean they would be legitimately justified in staging a coup and overthrowing the government?

Yes, if they were truly fighting to preserve the constitution and protect the American people. I swore an oath to do just that, not to protect a politician's power over the populace.
 
If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

...does that mean they would be legitimately justified in staging a coup and overthrowing the government?

The Romans thought so and look where that got them.
 
Yes, of they were truly fighting tobpreserve the constitution and protect the American people. I swore an oath to do just that, not protect a politician's power over the populace.

Sure. But would you really want to trust the Colonels' will interpret things the way you would? I have followed a large number of militaries take over to save the population from all sorts of things. True they were often helpful to our aims and desires and once in a while they actually helped their own populations, well most of it, but usually it was very unpleasant for most everyone, well almost everyone.

But it a very important question for the world order and not only for the individual country. It is certainly a point we will have to address, if we want to restructure international security in a way to avoid major war in this century.
 
I don't think the constitution grants the military the power to be the arbiter of constitutionality. If I had to guess, I'd say their was some sort of system set up for that exact purpose.
 
Sure. But would you really want to trust the Colonels' will interpret things the way you would? I have followed a large number of militaries take over to save the population from all sorts of things. True they were often helpful to our aims and desires and once in a while they actually helped their own populations, well most of it, but usually it was very unpleasant for most everyone, well almost everyone.

But it a very important question for the world order and not only for the individual country. It is certainly a point we will have to address, if we want to restructure international security in a way to avoid major war in this century.
I don't recall ever saying I would trust colonels to determine that constitutionality. If I believed their actions support the constitution, I would follow them, if not I wouldn't. There are such things as unlawful orders.

Soldiers are not mindless automotons that have to follow every order, nor did I swear an oath to some leader.
 
If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

...does that mean they would be legitimately justified in staging a coup and overthrowing the government?




Read and study the U.S. Constitution.

You'll find the answer there and in the laws which the U.S. Congress has passed, based on the U.S. Constitution, but I suspect that none of that will put a big smile on your face.
 
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I have had many conservatives tell me if I support even a few of Obama's ideas I am not American. I do beleive under a very few circumstances it would be American citizens responsiblity to over throw the government. But very damn few, for example, a coup from an outside country, armed assaination of our leadership or something. Other than that the CIC is the Commander.
 
If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

...does that mean they would be legitimately justified in staging a coup and overthrowing the government?

Isn't this what our 2A and the well regulated militia is for?
 
I don't recall ever saying I would trust colonels to determine that constitutionality. If I believed their actions support the constitution, I would follow them, if not I wouldn't. There are such things as unlawful orders.

Soldiers are not mindless automotons that have to follow every order, nor did I swear an oath to some leader.

Part of the oath is to follow the orders of those appointed over you.
 
If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

...does that mean they would be legitimately justified in staging a coup and overthrowing the government?

Where in the US Constitution is the military directed to stage coups?
 
I don't recall ever saying I would trust colonels to determine that constitutionality. If I believed their actions support the constitution, I would follow them, if not I wouldn't. There are such things as unlawful orders.

Soldiers are not mindless automotons that have to follow every order, nor did I swear an oath to some leader.




Try and overthrow the U.S. Government and see how far you get.

Running your mouth about doing something is always a lot easier than actually doing it.
 
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If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

...does that mean they would be legitimately justified in staging a coup and overthrowing the government?

If the Constitution were not being upheld that would mean their already was a coup and the military is justified in righting the ship of state !
 
Try and overthrow the U.S. Government and see how far you get.

Running your mouth about doing something is always a lot easier than actually doing it.
I never said I was going to. Run your mouth somewhere else little boy.

I am neither still in the military nor in the US.

Sure. But would you really want to trust the Colonels' will interpret things the way you would? I have followed a large number of militaries take over to save the population from all sorts of things. True they were often helpful to our aims and desires and once in a while they actually helped their own populations, well most of it, but usually it was very unpleasant for most everyone, well almost everyone.

But it a very important question for the world order and not only for the individual country. It is certainly a point we will have to address, if we want to restructure international security in a way to avoid major war in this century.
I've already explained to you that I don't care what their interpretation is, I care what mine is, so I have no idea why you're pushing this same strawman again.

Part of the oath is to follow the orders of those appointed over you.

And the biggest part of that oath is to support and defend the constitution. If those conflict the constitution takes priority. Or are you claiming soldiers should commit any atrocity they're ordered to?
 
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Or are you claiming soldiers should commit any atrocity they're ordered to?

That's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. A service member will be prosecuted for disobeying orders or following through with them. It's a matter of choice and of conscience what it chosen though.
 
We were trained if you were going to disobey an order because you thought it was unlawful, it better be a hill you were willing to die on, cause you probably would.
That's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. A service member will be prosecuted for disobeying orders or following through with them. It's a matter of choice and of conscience what it chosen though.
 
If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

...does that mean they would be legitimately justified in staging a coup and overthrowing the government?

No, but soldiers would be true to their oath if they refused to execute an operation that violated the people's constitutional rights.
 
We were trained if you were going to disobey an order because you thought it was unlawful, it better be a hill you were willing to die on, cause you probably would.

You'll die on that hill...unless, everyone else who went along with an unlawful order was court martialed and sent to prison for 30 years.
 
When you were on active duty, how would you have interpreted that? If you were ordered to protect an armoury with deadly force and had to kill fellow citizens, would you? Or are you talking about some interprtation of the constitution, for example, deploying active duty military at the borders and controlling civilian populations crossing that border?
No, but soldiers would be true to their oath if they refused to execute an operation that violated the people's constitutional rights.
 
When you were on active duty, how would you have interpreted that? If you were ordered to protect an armoury with deadly force and had to kill fellow citizens, would you? Or are you talking about some interprtation of the constitution, for example, deploying active duty military at the borders and controlling civilian populations crossing that border?

I'm talking scenarios such as an executive order to perform a nationwide gun confiscation. Illegal detentions of American citizens. Disobeying an executive order to arrest Congress, because the president dissolved the body, along with the Constitution. Property confisations. etc's like that.
 
We were trained if you were going to disobey an order because you thought it was unlawful, it better be a hill you were willing to die on, cause you probably would.

Pretty much, yeah.
 
I've already explained to you that I don't care what their interpretation is, I care what mine is, so I have no idea why you're pushing this same strawman again.
?

Were it a straw man, you would be very right to protest. Sorrily, it is quite unimportant what one thinks, when the strong men have decided. If the checks on their power are not in place and enough robust to contain that force, resistance is too late and you end up in a dungeon down below andmerit an ode F. Zappa.
And yes I realize we are talking theory. But no one should not base theory on wishful thought.
 
I never said I was going to. Run your mouth somewhere else little boy.
I am neither still in the military nor in the US.


I've already explained to you that I don't care what their interpretation is, I care what mine is, so I have no idea why you're pushing this same strawman again.



And the biggest part of that oath is to support and defend the constitution. If those conflict the constitution takes priority. Or are you claiming soldiers should commit any atrocity they're ordered to?





This 'little boy' was born in 1943 and will 'run his mouth' where and when he feels like it.




"The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen." ~ Tommy Smothers
 
There's two problems so many people have

#1- They think their personal interpretation of the Constitution is objectively correct, and other interpretations are objectively wrong, and so they have some leeway to force their opinion on others under the banner of "protecting the Constitution".
#2- They believe the Constitution to be some infallible document that couldn't just be flat out wrong, either through commission or omission. Any constitution anywhere is just a means to an end. It's the end itself.
 
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