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If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 36.1%

  • No

    Votes: 19 52.8%

  • Other

    Votes: 4 11.1%
  • Total voters
    36
Phys251 said:
I will not entertain these lies. Anyone who attempts to overthrow our government by force in the name of freedom has become the very thing he swore against, and deserves to be hanged.

If you don't like what America is becoming, you are free to leave.
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Luckily our forefathers didn't have such a cowardly attitude as yourself, and decided to rebel against the tyranny they lived under.

So you're really telling me that even if the government were committing genocide against their own citizens, the military should just keep following orders? You realize cowardice like yours gave us the holocaust, right?
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Unfortunately, too much of our populace has become too complacent, docile, and cowardly to carry out such a rebellion, but yes, I think it is way overdue.
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Said one of the many conservatives on the Internet who believes a rebellion is actually in order but is too complacent, docile, and cowardly to carry out such a rebellion.

Samuel Adams is rolling over in his grave about your kind of "patriot".
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Luckily our forefathers didn't have such a cowardly attitude as yourself, and decided to rebel against the tyranny they lived under.

So you're really telling me that even if the government were committing genocide against their own citizens, the military should just keep following orders? You realize cowardice like yours gave us the holocaust, right?
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Our founders did not engage in a military coup. Reread your history. We divorced from England, and that divorce sure wasn't legal at the time, but it was categorically not a coup.

You do realize that due to the subject matter, this thread has probably already been flagged by the TSA, right? Man, would you have some explaining to do if you were, shall we say, "interviewed" about it...
 
Phys251 said:
Our founders did not engage in a military coup. Reread your history. We divorced from England, and that divorce sure wasn't legal at the time, but it was categorically not a coup.

You do realize that due to the subject matter, this thread has probably already been flagged by the TSA, right? Man, would you have some explaining to do if you were, shall we say, "interviewed" about it...
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nice quibble. one of the best ones I've seen in a while.
 
Any oath that holds someone to the service of the state even if that means going against the interest of the people is unfit and not worth upholding.
 
Phys251 said:
I will not entertain these lies. Anyone who attempts to overthrow our government by force in the name of freedom has become the very thing he swore against, and deserves to be hanged.
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The government does not have the right to rule over the people and the people always maintain the right to destroy it whenever they deem it fit. No oath to the government can forfeit this right.
 
Phys251 said:
Our founders did not engage in a military coup. Reread your history. We divorced from England, and that divorce sure wasn't legal at the time, but it was categorically not a coup.

You do realize that due to the subject matter, this thread has probably already been flagged by the TSA, right? Man, would you have some explaining to do if you were, shall we say, "interviewed" about it...
Click to expand...
Quibbling with words is fun...but you are right. It wasnt a 'coup'...but it also damn sure wasnt a 'divorce'. It was an outright violent and open rebellion by citizens which ended in the forced ousting of a despotic government, replaced then by a government of the citizens choosing.
 
Henrin said:
The government does not have the right to rule over the people and the people always maintain the right to destroy it whenever they deem it fit.
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You might want to familiarize yourself with 18 USC Chapter 115.

Given the nature of this thread I'd particularly direct your attention to § 2385 :

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States...
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Which, essentially, you're doing:

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
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I mean, I doubt you'll be prosecuted for it, but in point of fact you just committed a felony.
 
Phys251 said:
Our founders did not engage in a military coup. Reread your history. We divorced from England, and that divorce sure wasn't legal at the time, but it was categorically not a coup.

You do realize that due to the subject matter, this thread has probably already been flagged by the TSA, right? Man, would you have some explaining to do if you were, shall we say, "interviewed" about it...
Click to expand...

So are you ignoring the question, or sticking with your answer? You believe that if the government were committing genocide against its people, the military should continue obeying orders.

After all, to you, there is NEVER a scenario where a coup would be justified, right?
 
soot said:
You might want to familiarize yourself with 18 USC Chapter 115.

Given the nature of this thread I'd particularly direct your attention to § 2385 :



Which, essentially, you're doing:



I mean, I doubt you'll be prosecuted for it, but in point of fact you just committed a felony.
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So? You have any idea how many times I have committed that felony in my lifetime? Lets just say a lot. I never agreed to anything with the government and I have no reason to respect some law put in place to maintain their rule. The great thing about treason charges is that they essentially only serve the state.
 
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Phys251 said:
I will not entertain these lies. Anyone who attempts to overthrow our government by force in the name of freedom has become the very thing he swore against, and deserves to be hanged.

If you don't like what America is becoming, you are free to leave.
Click to expand...

Really, before you say another word about treason, you should really read the section of the Constitution where it is defined. As I said, the word does not mean what you think it means.

In fact, the use of the country's military resources to wage war against its own people—a practice which you seem to advocate—would meet the definition of treason.

If advocating treason should be punishable by hanging, then let us start with you.
 
Phys251 said:
I will not entertain these lies. Anyone who attempts to overthrow our government by force in the name of freedom has become the very thing he swore against, and deserves to be hanged.

If you don't like what America is becoming, you are free to leave.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...




And also free to try to change the U.S. Government through free, fair elections, eh?
 
Henrin said:
You have any idea how many times I have committed that felony in my lifetime?
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Honestly? I couldn't possibly care any less how many felonies you've committed.

But you made a pretty bald faced statement that government does not have the right to rule over the people and the people always maintain the right to destroy it whenever they deem it fit.

You don't have that right.

Not in America.

Not any more.

Maybe the Founders intended for you to maintain that right to rebellion, but much like your right to own chattel slaves that right has been taken from you.

You can still foment rebellion, of course, just like you can still, strictly speaking, keep slaves.

But you don't have a right to it.
 
soot said:
You might want to familiarize yourself with 18 USC Chapter 115.

Given the nature of this thread I'd particularly direct your attention to § 2385 :



Which, essentially, you're doing:



I mean, I doubt you'll be prosecuted for it, but in point of fact you just committed a felony.
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Your problem is staying on track. The theme of the thread is not the destruction of the Constitution and our system of government but rather RESTORING the government to the guidelines presented in the Constitution. I know of no reasoned intelligent rational person that thinks we should eliminate the Constitution. I DO however know some mindless ****heads that think they should be able to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution they want to follow based on their particular political ideology. But...that is a topic for another thread.
 
VanceMack said:
Your problem is staying on track. The theme of the thread is not the destruction of the Constitution and our system of government but rather RESTORING the government to the guidelines presented in the Constitution. I know of no reasoned intelligent rational person that thinks we should eliminate the Constitution. I DO however know some mindless ****heads that think they should be able to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution they want to follow based on their particular political ideology. But...that is a topic for another thread.
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I believe that would be in the spirit of this thread's topic.
 
Sounds like a good way to start an oppressive, militaristic dictatorship.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Really, before you say another word about treason, you should really read the section of the Constitution where it is defined. As I said, the word does not mean what you think it means.
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Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.​

Attacking the government of the United States of America with clear intent to overthrow it certainly meets either definition. Any other similar attack is "only" terrorism. Treason, however, takes it to a whole new level.

In fact, the use of the country's military resources to wage war against its own people—a practice which you seem to advocate—would meet the definition of treason.

If advocating treason should be punishable by hanging, then let us start with you.
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Good luck with your little revolution against the most powerful military in the history of mankind. And lest you think that a sizable number of troops would join the traitors, let me remind you of how horribly wrong many revolutions in the past have gone. You do pay attention to events, past and present, outside our borders, right?

/me is mighty curious how many alarm bells are going off at the NSA right now...
 
soot said:
Honestly? I couldn't possibly care any less how many felonies you've committed.

But you made a pretty bald faced statement that government does not have the right to rule over the people and the people always maintain the right to destroy it whenever they deem it fit.

You don't have that right.

Not in America.

Not any more.

Maybe the Founders intended for you to maintain that right to rebellion, but much like your right to own chattel slaves that right has been taken from you.

You can still foment rebellion, of course, just like you can still, strictly speaking, keep slaves.

But you don't have a right to it.
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Every citizen in the country commits felonies every day. Do you honestly think I care if I committed one? Every person and organization of people has a survival instinct and this organization called the US government is no different. There is no reason to expect that they will defend the peoples right to end the governments existence.
 
VanceMack said:
I DO however know some mindless ****heads that think they should be able to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution they want to follow based on their particular political ideology. But...that is a topic for another thread.
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No, that actually fits pretty well in this thread because clearly there are some some mindless ****heads in this discussion that think they should be able to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution they want to follow based on their particular political ideology.

The mindless ****heads in question are apparently ignorant of the fact that the Constitution contains an Article III, Section 3 which prohibits, specifically, the levying of war against the United States by citizens of the United States and an Article II, Section 8 which grants Congress the power to "make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States".

Specifically, the military mutinying and waging war against the United States government is treasonous and Unconstitutional.

And now the mindless ****heads be like, "Wait, whaaaaat just happened".

;)
 
soot said:
No, that actually fits pretty well in this thread because clearly there are some some mindless ****heads in this discussion that think they should be able to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution they want to follow based on their particular political ideology.

The mindless ****heads in question are apparently ignorant of the fact that the Constitution contains an Article III, Section 3 which prohibits, specifically, the levying of war against the United States by citizens of the United States and an Article II, Section 8 which grants Congress the power to "make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States".

Specifically, the military mutinying and waging war against the United States government is treasonous and Unconstitutional.

And now the mindless ****heads be like, "Wait, whaaaaat just happened".

;)
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I think you just spent a lot of effort proving my point.

No one is suggesting the military can or should overthrow a lawful and Constitutional government.

Just out of curiosity...are you a big fan of execution for Edward Snowden?
 
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government;
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Soot I don't believe you are right on your accusation that I committed a felony. I never endorsed the removal of the US government by name, but endorsed the idea of the people to remove their government. That is a wide open statement that talks of government in general, not of one individual government. I doubt you can show that I was endorsing the people to do anything or advocating for any action to take place. My argument was simply a matter of rights, not a matter of action.

Since the government does not practice rights and no person or body of people has the right to rule over another person or body of people my statement was correct.
 
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