View Poll Results: If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

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Thread: If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

  1. #121
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    Re: If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Really, before you say another word about treason, you should really read the section of the Constitution where it is defined. As I said, the word does not mean what you think it means.
    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

    Attacking the government of the United States of America with clear intent to overthrow it certainly meets either definition. Any other similar attack is "only" terrorism. Treason, however, takes it to a whole new level.

    In fact, the use of the country's military resources to wage war against its own people—a practice which you seem to advocate—would meet the definition of treason.

    If advocating treason should be punishable by hanging, then let us start with you.
    Good luck with your little revolution against the most powerful military in the history of mankind. And lest you think that a sizable number of troops would join the traitors, let me remind you of how horribly wrong many revolutions in the past have gone. You do pay attention to events, past and present, outside our borders, right?

    /me is mighty curious how many alarm bells are going off at the NSA right now...
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
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  2. #122
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    Re: If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    Honestly? I couldn't possibly care any less how many felonies you've committed.

    But you made a pretty bald faced statement that government does not have the right to rule over the people and the people always maintain the right to destroy it whenever they deem it fit.

    You don't have that right.

    Not in America.

    Not any more.

    Maybe the Founders intended for you to maintain that right to rebellion, but much like your right to own chattel slaves that right has been taken from you.

    You can still foment rebellion, of course, just like you can still, strictly speaking, keep slaves.

    But you don't have a right to it.
    Every citizen in the country commits felonies every day. Do you honestly think I care if I committed one? Every person and organization of people has a survival instinct and this organization called the US government is no different. There is no reason to expect that they will defend the peoples right to end the governments existence.

  3. #123
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    Re: If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I DO however know some mindless ****heads that think they should be able to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution they want to follow based on their particular political ideology. But...that is a topic for another thread.
    No, that actually fits pretty well in this thread because clearly there are some some mindless ****heads in this discussion that think they should be able to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution they want to follow based on their particular political ideology.

    The mindless ****heads in question are apparently ignorant of the fact that the Constitution contains an Article III, Section 3 which prohibits, specifically, the levying of war against the United States by citizens of the United States and an Article II, Section 8 which grants Congress the power to "make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States".

    Specifically, the military mutinying and waging war against the United States government is treasonous and Unconstitutional.

    And now the mindless ****heads be like, "Wait, whaaaaat just happened".

    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  4. #124
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    Re: If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    No, that actually fits pretty well in this thread because clearly there are some some mindless ****heads in this discussion that think they should be able to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution they want to follow based on their particular political ideology.

    The mindless ****heads in question are apparently ignorant of the fact that the Constitution contains an Article III, Section 3 which prohibits, specifically, the levying of war against the United States by citizens of the United States and an Article II, Section 8 which grants Congress the power to "make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States".

    Specifically, the military mutinying and waging war against the United States government is treasonous and Unconstitutional.

    And now the mindless ****heads be like, "Wait, whaaaaat just happened".

    I think you just spent a lot of effort proving my point.

    No one is suggesting the military can or should overthrow a lawful and Constitutional government.

    Just out of curiosity...are you a big fan of execution for Edward Snowden?

  5. #125
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    Re: If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

    Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government;
    Soot I don't believe you are right on your accusation that I committed a felony. I never endorsed the removal of the US government by name, but endorsed the idea of the people to remove their government. That is a wide open statement that talks of government in general, not of one individual government. I doubt you can show that I was endorsing the people to do anything or advocating for any action to take place. My argument was simply a matter of rights, not a matter of action.

    Since the government does not practice rights and no person or body of people has the right to rule over another person or body of people my statement was correct.
    Last edited by Henrin; 12-18-13 at 07:21 PM.

  6. #126
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    Re: If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Just out of curiosity...are you a big fan of execution for Edward Snowden?
    I honestly don't know enough about his case to say.

    I don't know exactly what all he released, the damage it could potentially do, or how it might aid enemies of the United States.

    I won't discount the plausibility that I would support execution for the guy, but neither would I say out of hand that he deserves execution just because he released "something".

    That said, what Snowden did is a crime. He is a criminal. I don't consider him a "hero". He deserves to be punished.

    I won't say that he deserves to die for what he did, and I won't even propose a particular length for a jail sentence, but the guy definitely deserves to go to jail.

    Edited to add:

    I just read the criminal complaint filed by the DOJ against Snowden and none of the charges against him carry the death penalty (in so far as I could tell, though I may have missed it).

    I don't see why you would suggest he might be sentenced to death?
    Last edited by soot; 12-18-13 at 07:38 PM.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  7. #127
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    Re: If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I doubt you can show that I was endorsing the people to do anything or advocating for any action to take place.
    Okay.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  8. #128
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    Re: If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

    Quote Originally Posted by BMCM View Post
    Isn't this what our 2A and the well regulated militia is for?
    What well regulated militia?
    __________________________________________________ _
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  9. #129
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    Re: If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    We were trained if you were going to disobey an order because you thought it was unlawful, it better be a hill you were willing to die on, cause you probably would.
    I think your words are very wise.

    Sadly, far too many on the far right truly believe that if the day of Right Wing rebellion finally comes and they take to the streets murdering their fellow Americans who they have targeted for assassination that the military and police will gladly join with them as allies in the bloodletting.

    Very very sad that such irrational delusion bordering on actual insanity exists as part of our body politic.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #130
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    Re: If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    If the military swears an oath to uphold the Constitution...

    ...does that mean they would be legitimately justified in staging a coup and overthrowing the government?
    The military has no Constitutional authority to do so. And who does the military answer too? Its the President of course and that seat still has no authority to shutdown the Congress.

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