Edward Snowden... today.

loader said:

You will remember my words, when you wake up in the concentration camp barrack.

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Oh noes! haha


I'm not surprised that Snowden fans exist in their own reality. You're a perfect representative.

loader said:

You will remember my words, when you wake up in the concentration camp barrack.

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That is quite an exaduration.

The NSA is simply looking through his potentialy existing midget porn collection.

The German said:

That is quite an exaduration.

The NSA is simply looking through his potentialy existing midget porn collection.

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May come a times when Popular Mechanics collection will be prohibited.

ecofarm said:

Could say? I do say. A bunch of ignorant fanboies think Snowden is a big deal, but anyone who knows anything realizes that he's just a scumbag poster boy for anti-government hysterics.

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Wait, so you were okay with the NSA spying on Americans? The NSA mass collecting data, resulting on them spying on you without due process?

Hamster Buddha said:

Wait, so you were okay with the NSA spying on Americans? The NSA mass collecting data, resulting on them spying on you without due process?

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I don't consider collecting meta data based on connections with out-of-country known terrorist phone numbers to be "spying on me". Corporations "spy" MUCH more than that just for marketing.

If I were connecting with a foreign, known terrorist phone number, I would consider that probable cause.

RabidAlpaca said:

LOL, if he didn't stay and get locked in a box without trial for years like Manning, he's a coward.

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Well, why do people call Mandela a hero? Why do they call MLK a hero? Because they were willing to face the consequences of their actions, and sacrifice of themselves for the good of others. That's what makes a hero. Snowden demonstrated that he certainly does not have that moxy. As for Manning, he's on trial, and much of the delay has been due to the actions of the defense; so he can't exactly complain about it.

You're just mad because you don't get to see him suffer.

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Nope. I'm pissed off because he took massive amounts of TS/SCI information and gave it to the Russians and Chinese, degraded our ability to exercise Soft Power around the globe (hey, there, so-called libertarian, if we can't exercise soft power in a scenario, which one do you think we'll reach for?), and aided those who wish to kill our citizens.

Besides, if I only wanted him to suffer, then I would want exactly what is happening to him now. Because what is happening to him now is that he is a pawn, and he is going to be used like a pawn to threaten or force the moves of more valuable pieces, and then sacrificed when convenient to do so.

You're a war hawk that values security over liberty every day of the week

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Not really - there are definite places collection shouldn't go. However, I'm also someone who bothered to look into what the programs Snowden has complained about actually do, and realize that this is not one of those. Furthermore, we know now that Snowden isn't motivated by any kind of concern for the liberty of American citizens, because he has released lots of information on programs that were not aimed at and did not involve American citizens. So Snowden no longer gets to wrap himself in that mantle, even rhetorically.

Snowden isn't a hero. He's a fool, an arrogant, self-absorbed, whiny fool. And it says a lot about the intellectual honesty of some movements that they are willing to try to pretend he is a hero merely because they find him convenient to their cause.

He's been extremely discriminatory about releasing documents. If he really wanted to hurt America, he would've done a mass release of the documents and not releasing carefully filtered selections like he has been now.

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I would encourage you to study up on how Information Operations are conducted, then. If you wanted to harm America, then you would do precisely what Putin is now having Snowden do, which is to have a steady-drip-drip of negative stories, each of which can get their own dedicated news cycles, provoke their own scandals, what-have-you. A single mass dump would have had the vast majority lost in the mix, and America's harm would have been heavily mitigated by the simple inability of humans to pay attention to too many things at once. By spreading it out, you can hurt America in deliberate ways at key points. Do you really think it was coincidence that a man under Putins' control harmed U.S. relations with its' European Allies just before Russia made a play for Ukraine?

You also have zero proof whatsoever that he's handed anything to the Chinese or Russians.

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:lamo Yeah. Because if there are two nations well known for their respect for personal privacy and unwillingness to engage in espionage against the U.S., it's Russia and China :lamo

Dude, trust me. Whether he wanted to or not (and I would bet he probably didn't), that stuff is gone.

Snowden sacrificed his privileged life to inform us about the overreaches of our government. By even your own definition, that's a hero. Apparently to you, however, a hero is only a hero if he gets burned at the stake afterwards.

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Hero's sacrifice themselves for the good of others. That's why we call them heroes. Snowden demonstrated quite clearly that he wasn't interested in sacrificing anything - which is why he fled, and why he fled with as much data as he did - to escape the consequences of his actions. :lol: He really did apparently think that his status as a cause celebre plus his ability to sell information (or threaten to sell information) would be his Ticket. But then he was dumb enough to run to a couple of dictatorships, although one of them (China) was content merely to take the data without using it openly.

ecofarm said:

Oh noes! haha


I'm not surprised that Snowden fans exist in their own reality. You're a perfect representative.

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Snowden for me, traitor.

loader said:

May come a times when Popular Mechanics collection will be prohibited.

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There may come a time in which white and black people will finaly live together in peace and harmony........ in Chinese gulags.

Explain why anyone should take an "argument" serious that starts with "there may be"?

RabidAlpaca said:

He had all of his data on the cloud. It's assumed by many that the laptops he had with him didn't actually have any secret data on it. To be honest, he'd be rather foolish if he did travel with the data. Why would he? Keeping it in the cloud is safer and easier.

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Wait - what? Have you even been paying attention to the Snowden revelations?

Are you not glad to know the extent that our government has been overreaching their bounds and spying on you and your fellow citizens?

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Our government overreaches its' bounds continually and in virtually all directions. But the metadata collection program which searches for people calling numbers associated terrorist activities is not one of them. If a cell phone in New York suddenly starts calling "Awhanna Below Upamaricans" in Pakistan, that is exactly the kind of thing that our government is charged with finding out so that it can stop planning vice responding to attacks. Security is one of the few things our federal government is supposed to be doing.

ecofarm said:

I don't consider collecting meta data based on connections with out-of-country known terrorist phone numbers to be "spying on me". Corporations "spy" MUCH more than that just for marketing.

If I were connecting with a foreign, known terrorist phone number, I would consider that probable cause.

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If that were what NSA was actually doing, we would probably all support that. A warrant for Verizon to give up all its' data for the preceding 3 months doesn't fit that argument. You are just a poster child for the status quo of intelligence. Are you an asset and funded by their generosity?

loader said:

May come a times when Popular Mechanics collection will be prohibited.

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Good Point. The NSA is probably watching this board right now, to try to find out who the troublemakers are, for when they and FEMA and the Masons take over. You should probably sign off immediately, destroy your computer, and never use electronics again. That way you can be like John Connor, and come back to save America after living off the grid.

DaveFagan said:

If that were what NSA was actually doing, we would probably all support that. A warrant for Verizon to give up all its' data for the preceding 3 months doesn't fit that argument.

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It does indeed - because that is precisely what Verizon keeps and hands over: Point-to-Point data.

cpwill said:

Well, why do people call Mandela a hero? Why do they call MLK a hero? Because they were willing to face the consequences of their actions, and sacrifice of themselves for the good of others. That's what makes a hero. Snowden demonstrated that he certainly does not have that moxy. As for Manning, he's on trial, and much of the delay has been due to the actions of the defense; so he can't exactly complain about it.



Nope. I'm pissed off because he took massive amounts of TS/SCI information and gave it to the Russians and Chinese, degraded our ability to exercise Soft Power around the globe (hey, there, so-called libertarian, if we can't exercise soft power in a scenario, which one do you think we'll reach for?), and aided those who wish to kill our citizens.

Besides, if I only wanted him to suffer, then I would want exactly what is happening to him now. Because what is happening to him now is that he is a pawn, and he is going to be used like a pawn to threaten or force the moves of more valuable pieces, and then sacrificed when convenient to do so.



Not really - there are definite places collection shouldn't go. However, I'm also someone who bothered to look into what the programs Snowden has complained about actually do, and realize that this is not one of those. Furthermore, we know now that Snowden isn't motivated by any kind of concern for the liberty of American citizens, because he has released lots of information on programs that were not aimed at and did not involve American citizens. So Snowden no longer gets to wrap himself in that mantle, even rhetorically.

Snowden isn't a hero. He's a fool, an arrogant, self-absorbed, whiny fool. And it says a lot about the intellectual honesty of some movements that they are willing to try to pretend he is a hero merely because they find him convenient to their cause.



I would encourage you to study up on how Information Operations are conducted, then. If you wanted to harm America, then you would do precisely what Putin is now having Snowden do, which is to have a steady-drip-drip of negative stories, each of which can get their own dedicated news cycles, provoke their own scandals, what-have-you. A single mass dump would have had the vast majority lost in the mix, and America's harm would have been heavily mitigated by the simple inability of humans to pay attention to too many things at once. By spreading it out, you can hurt America in deliberate ways at key points. Do you really think it was coincidence that a man under Putins' control harmed U.S. relations with its' European Allies just before Russia made a play for Ukraine?



:lamo Yeah. Because if there are two nations well known for their respect for personal privacy and unwillingness to engage in espionage against the U.S., it's Russia and China :lamo

Dude, trust me. Whether he wanted to or not (and I would bet he probably didn't), that stuff is gone.



Hero's sacrifice themselves for the good of others. That's why we call them heroes. Snowden demonstrated quite clearly that he wasn't interested in sacrificing anything - which is why he fled, and why he fled with as much data as he did - to escape the consequences of his actions. :lol: He really did apparently think that his status as a cause celebre plus his ability to sell information (or threaten to sell information) would be his Ticket. But then he was dumb enough to run to a couple of dictatorships, although one of them (China) was content merely to take the data without using it openly.

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You talk like a man with a rice paper bunghole. Show us the links that prove Snowden has given up anything or take some pareghoric for the diarrhea of the textual output opening.

DaveFagan said:

You talk like a man with a rice paper bunghole

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You type like a transgender leopard with a tinfoil cap.

Show us the links that prove Snowden has given up anything or take some pareghoric for the diarrhea of the textual output opening.

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It doesn't matter if Snowden wanted to give up anything or not. It's gone. Once he stored the information on those laptops and took those laptops to China and Russia, it was gone. Hell, it'd be intelligence malpractice not to take it, and neither China nor Russia are run by anything but bastards. Now? He's a puppet.

LowDown said:

Nope, he ran off to Russia and took the secret info with him. He's threatening to release more that would damage US national interests.

He probably entered an agreement with the Russians to share at least part of the info out of what he had.

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None of that was necessary to the purpose of informing the American people and trashing the US government. He's not a hero.

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Do you have any reliable proof of this or this this just an idea that you dreamed up?

The German said:

There may come a time in which white and black people will finaly live together in peace and harmony........ in Chinese gulags.

Explain why anyone should take an "argument" serious that starts with "there may be"?

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History teaches us, that it does not teach us anything. Everything was already and ready repeat again and again. Just because people have short memories.

loader said:

History teaches us, that it does not teach us anything. Everything was already and ready repeat again and again. Just because people have short memories.

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Äääääähhhhhhhhh What???!

cpwill said:

You type like a transgender leopard with a tinfoil cap.



It doesn't matter if Snowden wanted to give up anything or not. It's gone. Once he stored the information on those laptops and took those laptops to China and Russia, it was gone. Hell, it'd be intelligence malpractice not to take it, and neither China nor Russia are run by anything but bastards. Now? He's a puppet.

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Once again, you have posted your personal opinion of what Snowden did as if it was a fact. That makes you a liar or an ignoramus, your choice.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized"

cpwill said:

Good Point. The NSA is probably watching this board right now, to try to find out who the troublemakers are, for when they and FEMA and the Masons take over. You should probably sign off immediately, destroy your computer, and never use electronics again. That way you can be like John Connor, and come back to save America after living off the grid.

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I have 50 acres of land in Alaska. In the case of civil war, you can bring your family there to escape from unexpected danger for you.

DaveFagan said:

Once again, you have posted your personal opinion of what Snowden did as if it was a fact.

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You believe it is only my personal opinion that Snowden took 4 laptops worth of information to first China and then Russia?

:roll:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized"

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Yup.

The German said:

Äääääähhhhhhhhh What???!

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Сalm down. I understand that it hurts. At the beginning.

loader said:

I have 50 acres of land in Alaska. In the case of civil war, you can bring your family there to escape from unexpected danger for you.

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Well I appreciate the offer, but I hate the cold. Besides, in the event of collapse, I'll be probably better than most. In such scenarios, People Who Kill People (contra ms Streisand) Are The Most Employable People In The World .

cpwill said:

You believe it is only my personal opinion that Snowden took 4 laptops worth of information to first China and then Russia?

:roll:



Yup.

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No! He absolutely took 4 laptops loaded with probably world class porn or the addresses of all the eskimos in kokomo. Those laptops need to have contained no intelligence data until you can prove otherwise. Links, truth, etc. Until that time your timeline and cerebral capacity is associated with the "missing link," an evolutionary thing.

"Russia cannot be held responsible for any new leaks associated with Mr. Snowden because he left all of his archive in Hong Kong before coming to Russia, Mr. Peskov said. "His meeting with somebody in Moscow cannot harm the United States," Mr. Peskov said. "As for the materials that keep appearing in mass media, we are talking about the materials he handed over to some third persons or journalists or whomever else before he made his appearance on the territory of Russia. " Kremlin: Snowden will not be threat to U.S. - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

RabidAlpaca said:

He had all of his data on the cloud. It's assumed by many that the laptops he had with him didn't actually have any secret data on it. To be honest, he'd be rather foolish if he did travel with the data. Why would he? Keeping it in the cloud is safer and easier.

And you have zero proof whatsoever that he gave anything to Russia, so you're just speculating. I think Russia would grant him asylum just to troll us.

Have you become a big government statist since the last chance we talked? Are you not glad to know the extent that our government has been overreaching their bounds and spying on you and your fellow citizens?

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By all means, we needed to be informed of what the NSA is doing. But running off? Sorry, but civil disobedience includes standing up and taking the rap. I find it hard to believe that Russia didn't have some expectation of getting their hands on that stuff. I'd bet my nards that the Russians have a copy of everything Snowden accesses there whether he knows it or not.

Last time I looked libertarians were not against national security per se. Libertarianism isn't a suicide pact.