View Poll Results: Edward Snowden... today.

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hero

    40 43.48%
  • Traitor

    25 27.17%
  • Somewhere in-between (please elaborate)

    27 29.35%
Page 5 of 28 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 272

Thread: Edward Snowden... today.

  1. #41
    Iconoclast
    DaveFagan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    wny
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:13 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,292

    Re: Edward Snowden... today.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    This post made no sense
    "Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -- Pericles (430 B.C.)"
    Thank you Snowden.

  2. #42
    Phonetic Mnemonic ©
    radcen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Look to your right... I'm that guy.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:46 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    33,407

    Re: Edward Snowden... today.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I agree that the gov't will never police itself, that is why we have (had?) the constitution. The problem, as I see it, is that the extra constitutional power taken by the federal gov't (mostly) is still in full force. Shining a light does not eliminate roaches, it simply causes them to briefly seek cover.

    Our nine robed umpires were not granted the power to toss penalty flags. So long as the POTUS (and by extension the entire executive branch below them) is immune from prosecution, they have unlimited power. The only real check on that executive power is impeachment but, for that to be effective, it requires the House to bring charges and the Senate to convict - I see no hope of that happening given the current mindset of our congress critters.

    All that a whistle blower can do is to shine a light on the executive roaches, it still requires the other branches of gov't to act as the exterminator.
    I agree with what you say in theory, but in reality I believe that said light is snuffed out when the whistle blower tries to play by the rules. A lone individual playing by the rules against an entire bureaucratic apparatus not playing by the rules isn't very good odds.

    If Snowden had done what you suggest, I believe the government would have arrested him and hidden him away from public consciousness, taken his information, and NOT done anything to re-think what they're doing, but rather only fixed any potential holes/leaks so that they could keep doing it.

    The sole "lesson" learned by the government would have been... "We need to secure ourselves better."
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  3. #43
    Professor
    SBu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Washington State
    Last Seen
    01-18-16 @ 03:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    1,523

    Re: Edward Snowden... today.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I view going to Hong Kong and Russia as simply self-preservation. There were few options and he had to take what he could get.

    It astounds me that staying in the US, and essentially being hidden away in secret and thus lost to public consciousness, is viewed by anybody as a better option.
    Self-preservation does not equal hero. He retreated to adversary strongholds.

  4. #44
    Sage
    WCH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    The Lone Star State.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    22,154

    Re: Edward Snowden... today.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Pretty much my opinion as well. The government's actions and reactions since then, if anything, have only served to reinforce my conclusions.
    Yep, the FedGov and several foreign ones want him and his coherts silenced....at any cost.

  5. #45
    Almost respectable

    Cardinal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    35,015

    Re: Edward Snowden... today.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Edward Snowden... today. (15 December 2013)

    Now that some time has passed, and we have had a chance to view some of the ramifications of his actions, and how the government has reacted, how do you view Edward Snowden today?

    Hero? Traitor? Somewhere in between?

    Does your view of him today vary from your initial view after he first released documents?
    Hero. I don't understand the apathy that has taken hold with regards to government domestic spying, but if Snowden had revealed what the NSA was doing fifteen years ago there would have been a gigantic uproar.

  6. #46
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,573

    Re: Edward Snowden... today.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I agree with what you say in theory, but in reality I believe that said light is snuffed out when the whistle blower tries to play by the rules. A lone individual playing by the rules against an entire bureaucratic apparatus not playing by the rules isn't very good odds.

    If Snowden had done what you suggest, I believe the government would have arrested him and hidden him away from public consciousness, taken his information, and NOT done anything to re-think what they're doing, but rather only fixed any potential holes/leaks so that they could keep doing it.

    The sole "lesson" learned by the government would have been... "We need to secure ourselves better."
    OK, but Snowden, in fact, took your position with equally ineffective results (to date). The fact that we know, or at least have good cause to believe, that extra constitutional (yet possibly legal) actions were undertaken by Obama & Bush, et al, means that the ball is still not moving, but was firmly tossed into play to our congress critters. After observing no action (brief statements of outrage aside) being taken, by congress, on this matter tells us what we already knew - the federal gov't is now totally out of our control.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  7. #47
    Sage
    OldWorldOrder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    10-12-15 @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,820

    Re: Edward Snowden... today.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    "Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -- Pericles (430 B.C.)"
    Thank you Snowden.
    Why did you quote me? lol that's weird
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  8. #48
    Sage
    OldWorldOrder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    10-12-15 @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,820

    Re: Edward Snowden... today.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    OK, but Snowden, in fact, took your position with equally ineffective results (to date). The fact that we know, or at least have good cause to believe, that extra constitutional (yet possibly legal) actions were undertaken by Obama & Bush, et al, means that the ball is still not moving, but was firmly tossed into play to our congress critters. After observing no action (brief statements of outrage aside) being taken, by congress, on this matter tells us what we already knew - the federal gov't is now totally out of our control.
    Because the ball wasn't thrown to them at all. The necessary committees already knew about it and approved it, the necessary judges found it constitutional, and the necessary operators found it worthy of executing.

    Why would you expect that, when it's leaked, they change their mind? Because some random people don't like it?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  9. #49
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,573

    Re: Edward Snowden... today.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Because the ball wasn't thrown to them at all. The necessary committees already knew about it and approved it, the necessary judges found it constitutional, and the necessary operators found it worthy of executing.

    Why would you expect that, when it's leaked, they change their mind? Because some random people don't like it?
    That is the point which we now clearly see before us - a federal gov't totally unbound by the constitution:

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
    http://www.constitution.org/us_doi.pdf
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #50
    Sage
    OldWorldOrder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    10-12-15 @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,820

    Re: Edward Snowden... today.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is the point which we now clearly see before us - a federal gov't totally unbound by the constitution:



    http://www.constitution.org/us_doi.pdf
    Well, federal judges- legal scholars, all- disagree.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

Page 5 of 28 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •