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Is Political Correctnes a form of supressing Free Speach?

Is Political Correctness a form of suppressing Free Speech?

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Dittohead not! said:
but only if you're white. If you're black, you can rap about N*** or rant about "crackers" and not liking white people all you want.
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Great point! Because it has nothing to do with courtesy and everything to do with suppressing free speech.
 
To some degree it is.

There's nothing wrong with courtesy, politeness, and compassion. However, there are those who take the whole PC thing to a different and ridiculous level, and it could be argued that "PC" is an attempt to limit debate by defining acceptable words and concepts.
 
rathi said:
In Thailand, you can get arrested for demeaning the Monarch. That is suppressing frees speech. If someone calls you an asshole because they don't like the words coming out of your mouth, that is simply them exercising their own right to speech.
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That is the correct response to this thread.
 
Sometimes it's enforced, and no one can deny that that's suppression of free speech.
 
I wouldn't say it is "suppressing free speech" because that implies a formal force (the police, the state, etc.) actively punishing people for what they say or do.

I would say that it is "silencing the debate" because it often times is used by those who want to silence any opposition to what they have to say either by shaming them personally, or tainting their image in the eyes of others.
 
I'm fairly ok with people not feeling comfortable to express racist, sexist, or bigoted views in polite company. They are still free to express the views, so freedom of speech is not an issue. They are just not able to express those views without social consequences.
 
Political correctness in its more extreme forms such as that practiced by so many Euros, is a form of political fundamentalism, and exhibits the sort of mindless dogmatism that is no different in nature than that of religious fundies. Especially when political correctness demands that one say that a person is holding up three fingers when they are holding up two, it often functions as a downright Orwellian inversion of the truth of the matter.

It is not an abridgement of free speech, however, UNLESS it becomes governmental policy as has been implemented by various Europeans. Since the notion of free speech is predicated upon the relationship of the individual and the state, whatever pressure individuals apply towards each other to limit speech cannot be considered as denying free speech.
 
a351 said:
Neither of which is exclusive to or required by "Political Correctness." In general, it seems that those who rail against the notion take offense to the fact that it's becoming more and more difficult to be an asshole.
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More like, its becoming more and more frequent that I'll get called an asshole to suit someone else's political agenda. ;)
 
My father once told me, "Son, the first thing a man must do to correct his mistake, is to recognize his mistake."

Political correctness prevents us from addressing some serious issues in our society. Thus, failing to truly address them. making society unable to correct them.

It's a double-edged sword I suppose.

Mankind's collective stupidity seems to mandate some form of political correctness. Too many ignorant people have big mouths to just accept total freedom of speech. Mankind would be in a perpetual state of chaos. Sometimes it's hard to believe we all live on the same planet.
 
shrubnose said:
Whether someone wishes me a Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays I am glad that they took a minute to say whatever they said, and I wish them the same.

BTW: Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone at Debate Politics!
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And I wish the same for you and yours! :thumbs:

Greetings, Shrubnose. :2wave:
 
Helix said:
I'm fairly ok with people not feeling comfortable to express racist, sexist, or bigoted views in polite company. They are still free to express the views, so freedom of speech is not an issue. They are just not able to express those views without social consequences.
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Fair enough, but what constitutes a bigoted view? :ranton: I've been called a racist (by a professor, mind you) for expressing the thought (in a classroom, nonetheless, where one should be expected to present different view points) that convicted felons don't deserve the right to vote. His reasoning? That minorities are a disproportionately large % of the felon population, so therefore I'm a racist to minorities. They even have a term for "people like me," the colorblind racist. Clearly.... I could only believe in things such as law and order, hard work, and personal responsibility in order to oppress and discriminate against minorities. :roll:

:rantoff:
 
ReformCollege said:
Fair enough, but what constitutes a bigoted view? :ranton: I've been called a racist (by a professor, mind you) for expressing the thought (in a classroom, nonetheless, where one should be expected to present different view points) that convicted felons don't deserve the right to vote. His reasoning? That minorities are a disproportionately large % of the felon population, so therefore I'm a racist to minorities. They even have a term for "people like me," the colorblind racist. Clearly.... I could only believe in things such as law and order, hard work, and personal responsibility in order to oppress and discriminate against minorities. :roll:

:rantoff:
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Without knowing what you said, I have no way of knowing if the professor was right or if he is an idiot. However, we're always going to say things that piss other people off. What I'm talking about is that some asshole at work can no longer feel safe telling me racist or homophobic jokes by the water cooler. I'm fairly stoked about that.
 
When my daughter was in kindergarten, I said "Merry Christmas" and she quickly corrected me by saying "Happy Holidays". If she didn't learn that in school, I don't know where she learned it.
 
Helix said:
Without knowing what you said, I have no way of knowing if the professor was right or if he is an idiot. However, we're always going to say things that piss other people off. What I'm talking about is that some asshole at work can no longer feel safe telling me racist or homophobic jokes by the water cooler. I'm fairly stoked about that.
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He started going off about how the latest form of disenfranchisement of minorities is disenfranchisement of felons and how this was the "new Jim Crow." To which I said "but they are felons....." (Enter rant about racism here).
 
ReformCollege said:
Fair enough, but what constitutes a bigoted view? :ranton: I've been called a racist (by a professor, mind you) for expressing the thought (in a classroom, nonetheless, where one should be expected to present different view points) that convicted felons don't deserve the right to vote. His reasoning? That minorities are a disproportionately large % of the felon population, so therefore I'm a racist to minorities. They even have a term for "people like me," the colorblind racist. Clearly.... I could only believe in things such as law and order, hard work, and personal responsibility in order to oppress and discriminate against minorities. :roll:

:rantoff:
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The most bigoted phrase you can use is "people like you."

No one is like you, or like me. We're unique individuals.
 
Dittohead not! said:
The most bigoted phrase you can use is "people like you."

No one is like you, or like me. We're unique individuals.
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He didn't direct it at me specifically, no. But it was pretty clear, "those people" who disagree with affirmative action or believe in consequences for ones behavior are clearly "colorblind racists." That's what I meant by "people like me."

By the way, for some clarification, the "colorblind racist" was a different discussion a week or two later in the semester.
 
HELL NO, it's not suppressing free speech. What's wrong with you people, you are trying to do EXACTLY what you accuse other people of doing. Get a ****ing life.
 
ReformCollege said:
He started going off about how the latest form of disenfranchisement of minorities is disenfranchisement of felons and how this was the "new Jim Crow." To which I said "but they are felons....." (Enter rant about racism here).
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Felonies have been diluted so much that I don't support the lifelong punishment that goes along with them anymore. As for your professor, while I agree with him, it sounds like he doesn't handle opposing views very well. Still, your freedom of speech was not suppressed.
 
Helix said:
What I'm talking about is that some asshole at work can no longer feel safe telling me racist or homophobic jokes by the water cooler. I'm fairly stoked about that.
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I have a good friend who is lesbian, and you should hear some of the gay jokes she tells! Taken in the wrong way and told by somebody who doesn't like gay people, they could be construed as homophobic -- quite definitely so. Told with affection, and with a sense of poking gentle fun, though, and some of the same jokes are funny as all get up.

Maybe it all lies in the delivery as well as the source, but I'd hate to toss out the baby with the bathwater by overzealous vigilance.
 
Gardener said:
I have a good friend who is lesbian, and you should hear some of the gay jokes she tells! Taken in the wrong way and told by somebody who doesn't like gay people, they could be construed as homophobic -- quite definitely so. Told with affection, and with a sense of poking gentle fun, though, and some of the same jokes are funny as all get up.

Maybe it all lies in the delivery as well as the source, but I'd hate to toss out the baby with the bathwater by overzealous vigilance.
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Also, if you don't like what someone is saying, there's the option to walk away or leave.
 
Unless PC is enforced by the government, it has nothing at all to do with the Freedom of Expression. Free speech means you can express yourself how you wish (with reasonable restrictions such as not yelling fire in a crowded theater) without fear of fines or imprisonment from the government. It does not mean you can say something offensive and expect to keep your job with a private entity, or expect others to not be offended or speak out themselves against what you said. The PC crap gets on my nerves just like it does with most people, but in 99.999% of cases, PC backlash has nothing at all to do with infringement on freedom of expression.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I'd have to hear a specific example of it. Usually political correctness isn't enforced by law, but rather by public opinion. If you want to say, make racist comments, you have the ability to do so, but do expect to be fired and or cussed out.
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And that's why it's not supressing anything.
 
ReformCollege said:
I wouldn't say it is "suppressing free speech" because that implies a formal force (the police, the state, etc.) actively punishing people for what they say or do.

I would say that it is "silencing the debate" because it often times is used by those who want to silence any opposition to what they have to say either by shaming them personally, or tainting their image in the eyes of others.
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I agree. A better term would be that it discourages free speech.
 
Gardener said:
I have a good friend who is lesbian, and you should hear some of the gay jokes she tells! Taken in the wrong way and told by somebody who doesn't like gay people, they could be construed as homophobic -- quite definitely so. Told with affection, and with a sense of poking gentle fun, though, and some of the same jokes are funny as all get up.

Maybe it all lies in the delivery as well as the source, but I'd hate to toss out the baby with the bathwater by overzealous vigilance.
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we aren't talking about legislating some suppression of speech. we're talking about the fact that now somebody doesn't feel comfortable sitting down at the bar next to me and telling me a bunch of anti-black or anti-semitic jokes. in my area, that's real progress.

sure, some people take it too far. however, i still feel that pushing that kind of ignorant nonsense out of polite conversation is a significant net benefit.
 
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