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Wither the ACA?

What will happen to the ACA assuming the web site is fixed? Pick all that apply.

  • It will work as intended, and it will be butterflies and unicorns from then on.

    Votes: 4 19.0%

  • Adverse selection will force the government to bail out insurance companies.

    Votes: 9 42.9%

  • Cost containment will fail due to political pressure. Costs will go through the roof.

    Votes: 10 47.6%

  • It will never take effect. They will keep delaying implementation until the Democrats are voted out.

    Votes: 5 23.8%

  • The whole thing will collapse and the masses will demand single payer.

    Votes: 7 33.3%

  • Dr. Ben Casey will return and demand that doctors charge $12 cash for clinic visits.

    Votes: 1 4.8%
  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
specklebang said:
I really don't buy into polls. They are usually agenda driven and untrustworthy. Simple nuances of terminology tend to manipulate results. Question that can't be answered (have you stopped being a criminal? Is Obama a great President? Can 2+2=5).

As you can see on this board, we still don't have anyone who posted a) what they pay now and b) what they bought through the exchange. Instead, we get anecdotes either praising or vilifying ACA that are usually very coincidentally matched to that person's political beliefs.

So, as we roll into 2014, we'll find out the real world results and it will be good, bad or indifferent. This - despite Americas short term memory problems - will reflect itself at the voting booth in 2014.
Click to expand...

With only .1% of the folks (US population) even getting to the "add to cart" step on the PPACA federal website, and with fewer than 10% of those having actually made a payment, it is not surprising that .01% of the people are not well represented on this website. ;)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
With only .1% of the folks (US population) even getting to the "add to cart" step on the PPACA federal website, and with fewer than 10% of those having actually made a payment, it is not surprising that .01% of the people are not well represented on this website. ;)
Click to expand...

By mid-year, we'll have probably gotten past the .01% factor. As you say, with so few completed applications, we certainly know this isn't smooth and the website was built by incompetents.

But there are people and companies who know how to fix this. They just need the King to be despoerate enough to use them instead of the largest donor. And they will.

Then, and only then, will we find out what REALLY happened.
 
LowDown said:
Assuming the web site issues are fixed, what will happen with the ACA?
Click to expand...

In terms of the politics of the situation, or in terms of the actual evolution of the health care system?
 
specklebang said:
By mid-year, we'll have probably gotten past the .01% factor. As you say, with so few completed applications, we certainly know this isn't smooth and the website was built by incompetents.

But there are people and companies who know how to fix this. They just need the King to be despoerate enough to use them instead of the largest donor. And they will.

Then, and only then, will we find out what REALLY happened.
Click to expand...

What? Now is somehow not reality because the Obama administration is incompetent? ;)
 
eohrnberger said:
If ObamaCare isn't repealed, the US healthcare market will stratify in three segments:

  1. The young invincibles won't be signing up anytime soon. To them, it's a just a tax. If they do have a major medical, they'll typically have their parents pay for it out of pocket or on their plan, if they have one.
  2. Those that can afford it will pay cash for concierge doctoring which will pretty much be as it is for them now. These folks can afford a major medical calamity out of pocket.
  3. Those who can't afford paying cash will have to deal with ObamaCare with it's increased wait times, poorer care, smaller network, shorter approved prescription list, and will do so for the simply fact that if they had a major medical calamity, it'd bankrupt them, not that the proposed premiums and deductibles would already anyway.
Regardless, without the young invincibles signing up, who are not signing up in droves by the way, ObamaCare is going to go bankrupt by

  • Covering the medical expenses of those who do sign up, the more sickly and elderly, and
  • Bailing out / paying off the health care insurance companies who aren't making profit, which is in the law itself.
Assuming that the Republicans gain control of both houses, and if the Republicans do take on ObamaCare, it'll be 'improvements' or 'fixes' that essentially hollows out the existing bill and writes a new one (possibly a more viable and financially sound one) in its place under the same name. This so that the narcissist Obama can still call it 'Obamacare', leaving his legacy in place, well so to speak.

If the Republicans don't take this track, or if Obama vetoes the proposed 'fix', the health care system in the US will descend even further into chaos. Part of me is thinking this is as intended by the liberals / progressive / Democrats, in order to promote a government run single payer system, the end goal from day one.

WRT Single Payer: The part that I don't get, with the abject failure of ObamaCare which was partial government control, how are the liberals / progressives / Democrats going to sell total government control to the electorate? I mean the US electorate is slow and doesn't always pay close attention ()after all Obama got elected on little more than a Hope and Change slogan), but how could they miss this abject failure of ObamaCare and then turn around and ask for more?
Click to expand...

Excellent post! :thumbs: Multiple likes sent!

Greetings, Oehrnberger! :2wave:
 
mak2 said:
We shall see.
Click to expand...
Hey, your loopy response helped me figure out how to get the younger folk to sign up real quick... offer, under the cheapest plan, to supply medical marijuana prescriptions to all suffering from...depression...ha ha ha...

Seems someone might have gotten into the dispensary a little early tho, eh?
 
Jack Hays said:
The only positive is that BHO won "Lie of the Year" from Politifact.:peace
Click to expand...

Not so fast there. Politifact continues to ignore all of the other demorats that repeated that (and similar) PPACA lies and has, as runners up, included only republicants. Hmm...
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Not so fast there. Politifact continues to ignore all of the other demorats that repeated that (and similar) PPACA lies and has, as runners up, included only republicants. Hmm...
Click to expand...

I do not wish to be among those who deny our POTUS the full credit he deserves for his achievements.:lamo
 
Jack Hays said:
I do not wish to be among those who deny our POTUS the full credit he deserves for his achievements.:lamo
Click to expand...

True, but in this case he clearly "did not build that" alone. ;)

Letting Obama, that faces no re-election worries, take "full responsibility" for PPACA lies is not "fairness" IMHO.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
True, but in this case he clearly "did not build that" alone. ;)

Letting Obama, that faces no re-election worries, take "full responsibility" for PPACA lies is not "fairness" IMHO.
Click to expand...

Well, let's concentrate on him and compel his colleagues to decide whether to defend him.:peace
 
ttwtt78640 said:
What? Now is somehow not reality because the Obama administration is incompetent? ;)
Click to expand...

They seem pretty lost to me but as they say "the proof is in the pudding", whatever that exactly means. Maybe he's a genius and this will all come together like a complicated thriller novel.

Interesting times?
 
eohrnberger said:
Very true. I've taken a peek at what I might have to pay, but until the employer mandate, I really don't have anything solid to go on.

I can't imagine large employers dumping their people on the exchanges, eve with a raise to cover the difference. The workplace chaos and workforce moral that would result would cost them 10 times as much. My guess is that there'll be an incremental difference in cost to the employees to modify up the existing plans to be compliant with the Obamacare mandates, one that, if the employer is smart, they'll split with the employees. But never it be said that you are always working for a smart employer.
Click to expand...

Smart employers sole purpose is their bottom line. If it adds to the bottom line to dump the employee health insurance so be it. Yes there is a initial shock to the employees but that soon fads. There has already been close to 6 million people dumped by their insurance company and it's widely known. When businesses start dumping it will all be expected.

All this talk about Obamacare this and that is driven by the negatives of Obamacare. There is not one positive about it. Oh yeah, precondition, that is such a weak argument as it only effects a small percentage of people. And that is what should have been addressed to provide coverage but not this wide sweeping Obamacare that has failed. I see all these post, "we have to wait and see" "it will take until 2017 before we really know" etc etc. Obamacare is a failure, pure and simple.

This whole business of Obama taking over 1/6th of the economy with his failed Obamacare is the worst thing that has hit this country. All that should have been done is how to provide coverage for the non-insured. But no the Dem's had to come up with a non partisan bill that they own and will sink them for it's failure.
 
Born Free said:
Smart employers sole purpose is their bottom line. If it adds to the bottom line to dump the employee health insurance so be it. Yes there is a initial shock to the employees but that soon fads. There has already been close to 6 million people dumped by their insurance company and it's widely known. When businesses start dumping it will all be expected.

All this talk about Obamacare this and that is driven by the negatives of Obamacare. There is not one positive about it. Oh yeah, precondition, that is such a weak argument as it only effects a small percentage of people. And that is what should have been addressed to provide coverage but not this wide sweeping Obamacare that has failed. I see all these post, "we have to wait and see" "it will take until 2017 before we really know" etc etc. Obamacare is a failure, pure and simple.

This whole business of Obama taking over 1/6th of the economy with his failed Obamacare is the worst thing that has hit this country. All that should have been done is how to provide coverage for the non-insured. But no the Dem's had to come up with a non partisan bill that they own and will sink them for it's failure.
Click to expand...

I can see where employers would be motivated to 'dump' all their employees onto the ObamaCare exchanges. It makes their health care costs really simple to deal with, a flat fee I believe it is then. If the employer does do that, they'll have to give the employees raises to cover the difference between the previous employer based insurance, which was a benefit, and the employee now without it. Again, that calculation is straight forward and easy to make for the employer: 'Here is what we contributed to your health care benefits last year, and he is your raise to cover it.'

However, this would throw the employee into the exchanges for the least amount of bargaining power over premiums and deductibles (zero in fact), were as with an employer based plan the employer has leverage with the insurance company to bargaining over premiums and deductibles. So the case can, and should, be made that employer based coverage will actually do more to 'bend the cost curve' than the ObamaCare plan (yes, I know, yet another promise broken - typical of government and this president).

What's also very worrying:

Survey: Nearly half of CFOs plan to cut jobs over Obamacare | The Daily Caller

So how does this help the recovery and create more demand, grow the economy, and get everyone back to work? Short answer: it doesn't. In fact, ObamaCare appears to be a large set back for the recovery, and a continued drain for the foreseeable future.
 
eohrnberger said:
I can see where employers would be motivated to 'dump' all their employees onto the ObamaCare exchanges. It makes their health care costs really simple to deal with, a flat fee I believe it is then. If the employer does do that, they'll have to give the employees raises to cover the difference between the previous employer based insurance, which was a benefit, and the employee now without it. Again, that calculation is straight forward and easy to make for the employer: 'Here is what we contributed to your health care benefits last year, and he is your raise to cover it.'

However, this would throw the employee into the exchanges for the least amount of bargaining power over premiums and deductibles (zero in fact), were as with an employer based plan the employer has leverage with the insurance company to bargaining over premiums and deductibles. So the case can, and should, be made that employer based coverage will actually do more to 'bend the cost curve' than the ObamaCare plan (yes, I know, yet another promise broken - typical of government and this president).

What's also very worrying:

Survey: Nearly half of CFOs plan to cut jobs over Obamacare | The Daily Caller

So how does this help the recovery and create more demand, grow the economy, and get everyone back to work? Short answer: it doesn't. In fact, ObamaCare appears to be a large set back for the recovery, and a continued drain for the foreseeable future.
Click to expand...

All of what you say is true, what I was trying to say was, an employer is going to handle Obamacare in the most economical way. That's what businesses do. If it's cheaper to keep employees covered with insurance they will, if its cheaper to dump them they will do that.

You can bet there will be businesses that go to their employees and say we can't afford to pay for your insurance as the cost is too costly to sustain. But we know you need health insurance and can give you a raise but we're sorry it's minimal as we have to pay the fine.

Same applies to companies when they hit the 50 employee threshold. Businesses react to added cost of doing business head on and they will do everything to minimize these cost. If that means all new hires are all part time to keep under the 50 employee threshold that is what they will do.

This whole Obamacare issue is a disaster in so many ways. The Dems had full control of all three branches of government and jammed this diabolical down the throat of the American people and had to buy off some of their own Dem members to get it passed, without one Pub vote. This is what you get when you don't have a true bipartisan bill of this nature.
 
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