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Thread: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

  1. #1
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    Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Yes
    No
    I love mashed potatoes
    Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?-roasted-garlic-mashed-potatoes2-jpg

    Now let me be clear what Im asking. The fact is we have national equal protection laws and anti-discrimination laws. Then on top of that states, counties, cities, towns, corporations and many orgs have minimum these same laws/rules/ordinances and policies but also expand them in different ways.

    Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws in employment, housing and public accommodations prohibits such discrimination based on race, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, creed, religion, disability (mental and physical), marital status (housing and public accommodations only), marriage to a co-worker (employment only), and age (employment only).

    With these laws and protections of rights factually in place for all the other categories and factually in place in Colorado did the judge rule properly?

    If you think all equal protection laws and anti-discrimination laws shouldn’t exist, this ain’t the thread for you because that isn’t the topic.
    I want to know if people think the judge made the right ruling based on facts and law.

    We can discuss if you think orientation should be grouped with the others though.

    Here’s some quotes from his ruling.:
    I haven’t found the whole ruling yet, id really like to read it if anybody has it please post it and or let me know.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    “The undisputed facts show that Respondents (Phillips) discriminated against Complainants because of their sexual orientation by refusing to sell them a wedding cake for their same-sex marriage,” Judge Spencer wrote."

    The order says the cake-maker mustcease and desist from discriminatingagainst gay couples. Although the judge did not impose fines in this case, the business will face penalties if it continues to turn away gay couples who want to buy cakes.Judge Spencer shot down the constitutional arguments, noting that the Supreme Court has "repeatedly found" that those engaged in commercial activity are subject to state discrimination laws, regardless of their religious beliefs. "Conceptually, refusal to serve a same-sex couple due to religious objection to same-sex weddings is no different from refusing to serve a biracial couple because of religious objection to biracial marriage," wrote Judge Spencer.

    "At first blush, it may seem reasonable that a private business should be able to refuse service to anyone it chooses," Spence wrote. "This view, however, fails to take into account the cost to society and the hurt caused to persons who are denied service simply because of who they are."
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now for me this is pretty easy,this is about illegal discrimination and violating rights and nothing else.

    Its factual a matter of civil/legal/equal rights as supported by law, rights, court cases, court precedence, constitutions and even the ruling above vs illegal discrimination.

    In the public realm we all have laws and rules we must follow, we all have rights, and they are the same for ALL OF US. Nobody gets special treatment nobody gets to break the law and infringe on the rights of others.

    The owner CHOSE to get a business license and agree to its terms and follow the rules and laws that come with that.
    The owner CHOSE to commit a crime and break law and he had to face the consequences of that.

    In reality he actually got off light, he broke the law and violated the rights of others and was simply given a cease and desist order to not longer break the law and illegal discriminate.

    Now he was asked if he would be willing to go to jail over this and he said “You know if that’s what it takes, I guess I would be,” well, happy trails Jack because that’s is where criminals tend to end up when they get caught breaking the law.

    Sorry he is entitled to his opinion but as a Christian myself I see zero logic in breaking the law and zero wrong with selling cake to gays, theres nothing sinful about that. This is simply very stupid and poor foresight and Jack has nobody to blame but himself.

    It actually blows my mind that SOME of the same people that don’t accept religion as a reason to break the law, illegally discriminate and violate equal rights some how magically think its ok when it comes to "queers faggots and dykes” treat them as a lesser and give them the same rights we all have or at least protect them. How absurd, and severely transparent those particular people are.

    Links:
    Judge orders baker to serve gay couples despite his religious beliefs | Fox News
    Judge orders Colo. cake-maker to serve gay couples - The Washington Post
    Judge orders Colo. cake-maker to serve gay couples - The Washington Post
    Judge orders Colorado baker to serve gay couples - U.S. News
    Court Rules Bakery Illegally Discriminated Against Gay Couple | ACLU - Colorado
    Judge Orders Colorado Bakery to Cater for Same-Sex Weddings - ABC News
    Judge Rules Colorado Bakery Discriminated Against Gay Couple - WSJ.com
    Cake Shop Owner Tells Fox News He
    It Was Never About the Cake | Deborah Munn
    Colorado Judge: Bakery That Refused Wedding Cake To Same-Sex Couple Broke The Law | ThinkProgress
    Last edited by AGENT J; 12-11-13 at 08:40 PM.
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    I love mashed potatoes.

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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Yes
    No
    I love mashed potatoes
    Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?-roasted-garlic-mashed-potatoes2-jpg

    Now let me be clear what Im asking. The fact is we have national equal protection laws and anti-discrimination laws. Then on top of that states, counties, cities, towns, corporations and many orgs have minimum these same laws/rules/ordinances and policies but also expand them in different ways.

    Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws in employment, housing and public accommodations prohibits such discrimination based on race, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, creed, religion, disability (mental and physical), marital status (housing and public accommodations only), marriage to a co-worker (employment only), and age (employment only).

    With these laws and protections of rights factually in place for all the other categories and factually in place in Colorado did the judge rule properly?

    If you think all equal protection laws and anti-discrimination laws shouldn’t exist, this ain’t the thread for you because that isn’t the topic.
    I want to know if people think the judge made the right ruling based on facts and law.

    We can discuss if you think orientation should be grouped with the others though.

    Here’s some quotes from his ruling.:
    I haven’t found the whole ruling yet, id really like to read it if anybody has it please post it and or let me know.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    “The undisputed facts show that Respondents (Phillips) discriminated against Complainants because of their sexual orientation by refusing to sell them a wedding cake for their same-sex marriage,” Judge Spencer wrote."

    The order says the cake-maker mustcease and desist from discriminatingagainst gay couples. Although the judge did not impose fines in this case, the business will face penalties if it continues to turn away gay couples who want to buy cakes.Judge Spencer shot down the constitutional arguments, noting that the Supreme Court has "repeatedly found" that those engaged in commercial activity are subject to state discrimination laws, regardless of their religious beliefs. "Conceptually, refusal to serve a same-sex couple due to religious objection to same-sex weddings is no different from refusing to serve a biracial couple because of religious objection to biracial marriage," wrote Judge Spencer.

    "At first blush, it may seem reasonable that a private business should be able to refuse service to anyone it chooses," Spence wrote. "This view, however, fails to take into account the cost to society and the hurt caused to persons who are denied service simply because of who they are."
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now for me this is pretty easy,this is about illegal discrimination and violating rights and nothing else.

    Its factual a matter of civil/legal/equal rights as supported by law, rights, court cases, court precedence, constitutions and even the ruling above vs illegal discrimination.

    In the public realm we all have laws and rules we must follow, we all have rights, and they are the same for ALL OF US. Nobody gets special treatment nobody gets to break the law and infringe on the rights of others.

    The owner CHOSE to get a business license and agree to its terms and follow the rules and laws that come with that.
    The owner CHOSE to commit a crime and break law and he had to face the consequences of that.

    In reality he actually got off light, he broke the law and violated the rights of others and was simply given a cease and desist order to not longer break the law and illegal discriminate.

    Now he was asked if he would be willing to go to jail over this and he said “You know if that’s what it takes, I guess I would be,” well, happy trails Jack because that’s is where criminals tend to end up when they get caught breaking the law.

    Sorry he is entitled to his opinion but as a Christian myself I see zero logic in breaking the law and zero wrong with selling cake to gays, theres nothing sinful about that. This is simply very stupid and poor foresight and Jack has nobody to blame but himself.

    It actually blows my mind that SOME of the same people that don’t accept religion as a reason to break the law, illegally discriminate and violate equal rights some how magically think its ok when it comes to "queers faggots and dykes” treat them as a lesser and give them the same rights we all have or at least protect them. How absurd, and severely transparent those particular people are.

    Links:
    Judge orders baker to serve gay couples despite his religious beliefs | Fox News
    Judge orders Colo. cake-maker to serve gay couples - The Washington Post
    Judge orders Colo. cake-maker to serve gay couples - The Washington Post
    Judge orders Colorado baker to serve gay couples - U.S. News
    Court Rules Bakery Illegally Discriminated Against Gay Couple | ACLU - Colorado
    Judge Orders Colorado Bakery to Cater for Same-Sex Weddings - ABC News
    Judge Rules Colorado Bakery Discriminated Against Gay Couple - WSJ.com
    Cake Shop Owner Tells Fox News He
    It Was Never About the Cake | Deborah Munn
    Colorado Judge: Bakery That Refused Wedding Cake To Same-Sex Couple Broke The Law | ThinkProgress
    It seems pretty open and shut to me.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    It seems pretty open and shut to me.
    Thats the way i feel about it but it seems some think its the end of the world and the judge went rogue. I believe the words were he must be just an extreme, lefty, liberal judge that hates religion, is ruling on his feelings, doesnt care about peoples rights and he is ignoring the constitution or something like that.

    But i was hoping for more rational insight, even if people didnt agree, as long as its calm, honest and rational its welcome.
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Thats the way i feel about it but it seems some think its the end of the world and the judge went rogue. I believe the words were he must be just an extreme, lefty, liberal judge that hates religion, is ruling on his feelings, doesnt care about peoples rights and he is ignoring the constitution or something like that.

    But i was hoping for more rational insight, even if people didnt agree, as long as its calm, honest and rational its welcome.
    There are just some issues where a person/s can sit down and think things through logically. Gay marriage and rights are one of those. It is all knee jerk. All of this stuff could be avoided if humans would treat other humans as the human beings they are. We are mighty mean to others of our own species.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    There are just some issues where a person/s can sit down and think things through logically. Gay marriage and rights are one of those. It is all knee jerk. All of this stuff could be avoided if humans would treat other humans as the human beings they are. We are mighty mean to others of our own species.
    Amen Brother, Amen

    yes for some that is simply to hard for them, the have to be and need to be "better" some how
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    There are just some issues where a person/s can sit down and think things through logically. Gay marriage and rights are one of those. It is all knee jerk. All of this stuff could be avoided if humans would treat other humans as the human beings they are. We are mighty mean to others of our own species.
    An odd thing about that thread...or perhaps topic...is that people saw being against gays...or even specifically supporting gay marriage...as 'moral' issues but didnt see racism as a moral issue. All I could think of is it wasnt a moral issue 'for them.' And dont remember when it was a big deal and a moral issue for alot of people.

    The good thing is....IMO anti-discrimination laws and the acceptance and integration of blacks into society is what brought alot of that change in attitudes about.
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    An odd thing about that thread...or perhaps topic...is that people saw being against gays...or even specifically supporting gay marriage...as 'moral' issues but didnt see racism as a moral issue. All I could think of is it wasnt a moral issue 'for them.' And dont remember when it was a big deal and a moral issue for alot of people.

    The good thing is....IMO anti-discrimination laws and the acceptance and integration of blacks into society is what brought alot of that change in attitudes about.
    I agree 100%, the fact his now and in history many people use/d religion to justify discrimination and unequal treatment for slavery, minorities, women other religions etc and that excuse didnt fly then and doesnt fly now but some how for gays it does? it makes no sense this si why its so hypocritical and illogical to try and separate sexual orientation from other things.
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    An odd thing about that thread...or perhaps topic...is that people saw being against gays...or even specifically supporting gay marriage...as 'moral' issues but didnt see racism as a moral issue. All I could think of is it wasnt a moral issue 'for them.' And dont remember when it was a big deal and a moral issue for alot of people.

    The good thing is....IMO anti-discrimination laws and the acceptance and integration of blacks into society is what brought alot of that change in attitudes about.
    Yeah, I can remember as a kid going into town and seeing all white this and all black that and didn't think a thing about it. Well, colored was the word. I agree.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Amen Brother, Amen

    yes for some that is simply to hard for them, the have to be and need to be "better" some how
    I think in some ways we have come a long way since I was a kid in the 1950's and in others I think we have stepped backwards. Sometimes I just don't know.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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