View Poll Results: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

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Thread: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

  1. #41
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Meh, slightly dishonest as it twists the context of my post, but whatever.
    Nor do I unquestioningly accept laws.

    This is not a black and white issue for me (no pun intended) but having weighed factors from both sides...over the years, the anti-discrimination laws *IMO* serve the greater good for society. By a great deal, not just a little. IMO, no society can reach its potential by marginalizing its minorities and not enabling their equal participation in that society.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #42
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    sorry, its not my answer, it would be your answer, and your saying ...no.

    can you tell me, how then a person makes a claim on a business for not serving them,..... since there is no rights violation?
    That certainly was the theory for racial segregation and denying services and housing to blacks particularly in the South.

  3. #43
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Nor do I unquestioningly accept laws.

    This is not a black and white issue for me (no pun intended) but having weighed factors from both sides...over the years, the anti-discrimination laws *IMO* serve the greater good for society. By a great deal, not just a little. IMO, no society can reach its potential by marginalizing its minorities and not enabling their equal participation in that society.
    I'm not sure that I agree that improper government force ultimately serves us all for the better. If anything, it just encourages government to continue acting improperly. And while we may feel good about one improper use of force, there are bound to be other instances of improper force that we disagree with. Instead we should take up our responsibility as freemen and accept the consequences of freedom, intelligently and consciously interact with the system to drive private enterprise towards rightful goals with consumer force while eliciting government force for actions which innately infringe upon the rights of others.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  4. #44
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And sometimes government imposes terms beyond their rightful ability.
    So, dont accept it. Choose another means of making a living.

    I wouldnt be so cavalier if the protected classes werent specific and limited in the anti-discrimination laws...and it doesnt mean I have to like the ones there are.

    I still support a business owner being able to refuse anything not on that list....and that list is much much much bigger...and yet, how often do you see or hear of a business owner kicking someone out for something they dont like? Or find objectionable or even morally unacceptable? Unless it's disruptive, not often. And that's because they are in business to make $. There are a million things that a business owner CAN choose to discriminate against....but doesnt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #45
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So, dont accept it. Choose another means of making a living.

    I wouldnt be so cavalier if the protected classes werent specific and limited in the anti-discrimination laws...and it doesnt mean I have to like the ones there are.

    I still support a business owner being able to refuse anything not on that list....and that list is much much much bigger...and yet, how often do you see or hear of a business owner kicking someone out for something they dont like? Or find objectionable or even morally unacceptable? Unless it's disruptive, not often. And that's because they are in business to make $. There are a million things that a business owner CAN choose to discriminate against....but doesnt.
    And that's where consumer pressure rules the day. There are just some things we cannot do, or rather shouldn't do, with government force. But it doesn't mean we are left empty handed. A free society requires an educated and participating population and it's our duty to fulfill that. We have more at our disposal than mere government force to elicit proper changes within society and local business.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #46
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I'm not sure that I agree that improper government force ultimately serves us all for the better. If anything, it just encourages government to continue acting improperly. And while we may feel good about one improper use of force, there are bound to be other instances of improper force that we disagree with. Instead we should take up our responsibility as freemen and accept the consequences of freedom, intelligently and consciously interact with the system to drive private enterprise towards rightful goals with consumer force while eliciting government force for actions which innately infringe upon the rights of others.
    I think it's evident that the civil rights movement advanced the causes of blacks and women in the US. From those battles came our anti-discrimination laws. Again...when you consider private businesses and blacks, it's hard to say that things have not improved greatly...so much so that most people no longer even thing about the races mixing in public. Or the sexes. So yes, as I said, I have looked at this issue from both sides and while not black and white, I feel that the benefits justify it the laws.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #47
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    1.)That's where, in reality, there are problems that gays face that others do not, so I suppose it's bending rules.
    2.) Can gays have a place where they can gather a romantic setting without having people sneering, gawking and pointing at them calling the freaks and have some Bible beater who rented a room quoting Bible at them (ie exercising free speech?)
    3.) Many cities and areas now, of course, have many places for gays and many communities are now gay tolerant or just so familiar with it that it isn't shocking. But some are not.
    4.)Key West is known to be VERY sexually liberated beyond most of the USA. They have a nude parade once a year, for example. And they are in the heart of Bible beaters and rightwingers too. All cultures meet there - and could clash.

    5.) So it gets to be a sticky topic. Can a business be a business for gay activities, where it known this means intimacy, and exclude heterosexuals?

    6.) Well, the law also prohibits gender discrimination, but most restrooms do. Could a business have a nudist pool ONLY for women or ONLY for men? I think the law says no. Should it really? Maybe it just has to.

    7.) But, in real terms, that means that hotel's pool area and overall the hotel for gays basically couldn't exist, and thus such a vacation romantic opportunity and socializing couldn't exist either.

    8.) But, then, doesn't THAT just make another discrimination?

    9.) If the state doesn't have gay marriage, and Florida doesn't,

    10.) it actually makes a discrimination as it is NOT illegal to have "married only" activities as marital status isn't an item of discrimination. SO... in effect, a hotel COULD have a heterosexuals only rule by having a "married only" rule, right? But no gay couples only rule.

    11.) Legislating non-discrimination isn't always as easy as it sounds, and can have unintended consequences that discriminate.
    1.) i dont understand at all? theres no bending of the rules
    2.) yes the same as straights if they, the couples have laws they cant cross and the on lookers have laws they can cross.

    in most cases it would be obscenity laws for the couple and harassment/assult for the on lookers

    3.) society is educating itself and standing up against bigots and or people in favor of denying rights

    4.) interesting

    5.) no if it breaks the law, its really that simply and soon these will be national laws

    6.) yes it can as long as its based on the nudity issue and not gender discrimination. again its all what the law allows

    7.) not sure how you come to this conclusion why is it any different than a straight romantic opportunity and socializing, i dont understand what you are saying

    8.) yes it would but again i have no clue how you arrive at the conclusion they cant co exist

    9.) again depending on the law state doesnt need gay marriage to have anti-discrimination laws, colorado doesnt

    10.) not true i dont know about flordia but yes may places and companies and states etc have martial status as a anti-discrimination group

    11.) this is true of everything but the proper thing to do is always protect rights and equality. The rest you deal with later
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  8. #48
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And that's where consumer pressure rules the day. There are just some things we cannot do, or rather shouldn't do, with government force. But it doesn't mean we are left empty handed. A free society requires an educated and participating population and it's our duty to fulfill that. We have more at our disposal than mere government force to elicit proper changes within society and local business.
    I also agree. However IMO, blacks and probably women would STILL be waiting to be treated equally in our society. The intrusion of govt in these cases advanced their positions in society in years instead of decades.

    And as you said, we need an educated society. In this case the govt intrusion assisted, accelerated, that education. Is it fair that Americans who ALREADY DESERVE to be treated equally, have to wait for the ignorant and intolerant to catch up? If ever? The fed govt is charged with protecting the minority over the will over the majority.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #49
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    That certainly was the theory for racial segregation and denying services and housing to blacks particularly in the South.
    whether these actions you speak are right or wrong, it does not matter.....of coarse i think they are wrong, however my feelings do not play a part in law.

    every person has his rights to life liberty and property, and government has no moral authority to force people to do things against their will.

    it violates the founding principles, the u.s. constitution, and state constitutions.

    when we create laws, based on our feelings we are doomed, becuase who decides who feelings are going to be used.

    everyone's feelings are not the same.

    government is made up of people, .are those elected.. morality superior to the population, becuase they hold a term of office.

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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    1.)Indeed, and in so doing you try to change the context of the statement, which is slightly dishonest as I said. It's just that in this instance, you are ok with being slightly dishonest in your representation of my point.
    100% factually false your context is still there and theres no dishonesty. this fact will never change when anybody reads YOUR post your context is in place.
    when anybody reads my post with only the part i think you for and acknowledged that was correct your context is still 100% in places because i didn't address anything else.

    zero dishonesty lol facts prove your statement wrong(calling it dishonest). If you disagree prove how the context was factually changed and then factually prove the dishonest part. You post will completely fail. I cant wait for this!

    if you say that color looks beautiful on you even though you are fat and i say thank you for like the color, nothing was changed about your context lol
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