View Poll Results: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

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  • Yes

    24 61.54%
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    9 23.08%
  • I love Mashed Potatoes!

    12 30.77%
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Thread: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

  1. #121
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    VOLUNTARILY (not shouting of course, just emphasizing).
    Good Lord, how tiresome. A suggestion: Use italics to emphasize, that way you don't have to issue a disclaimer every time.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  2. #122
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    It looks like a legal decision based on an unconstitutional law that the supreme court thinks to be constitutional.

    It seems to have the same quality as forcing people to pay for abortions, when they pay taxes or insurance fees.

  3. #123
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    I know, I've provided the code citation and the text multiple times.



    Thank you for the lesson but I already knew that.



    Thank you again, but everything in the above is irrelevant. Public Accommodation laws are not Indentured Servitude under the usage of the term in the 13th Amendment.

    The owner of the business opened the business VOLUNTARILY (not shouting of course, just emphasizing). They VOLUNTARILY (not shouting of course, just emphasizing) determined what goods and/or services to offer to the public. They can VOLUNTARILY (not shouting of course, just emphasizing) stop offering their goods and services to the public. Public Accommodation laws only require that a business that has VOLUNTARILY (not shouting of course, just emphasizing) decided to offer goods and services to the public must do so in a non-discriminatory manner for the conditions outlined in the law.

    Trying to state a legal case that Public Accommodation laws will be found unconstitutional based on the 13th Amendment is just barking up the wrong tree. Every State in the Union has Public Accommodation laws and they have been reviewed by all levels of state courts and upheld as a proper function of the powers under of the State under the 10th Amendment to regulate commerce within that state. Colorado has had a Public Accommodation law for over 100 years. The federal Public Accommodation law has been reviewed and upheld by all levels of the federal courts including the Supreme Court and been found valid (Heart of Atlanta Motel v. United States).




    Again, for something to be illegal it does not have to be a criminal offense.

    Same-sex Civil Marriage is a good example. It is illegal to enter into Civil Marriage in 30+ States, but it is not a crime under criminal law. There are Civil Laws and Criminal Laws, something in violation of Civil Law is still illegal, but it need to by a crime under Criminal Law.


    >>>>


    if you read the story
    regarding the case, its states...that the judge is an "administrative law judge"

    since the case is the state , taking the bakery to court, thats makes it "public law", and not civil law.

    Public law comprises constitutional law, "administrative law", tax law and criminal law, as well as all procedural law.

    Administrative law expanded greatly during the twentieth century, as legislative bodies worldwide created more government agencies to regulate the increasingly complex social, economic and political spheres of human interaction.

    administrative law focuses on arbitration of the two parties, ..........while criminal law focuses on the punishment of the individual.

    AMENDMENT XIII

    Section 1.
    Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

    has the bakery owner been convicted of a crime, will he have a "Record" of conviction for the rest of his life.........."No" its not a criminal case.

  4. #124
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJR View Post
    I love mashed potatoes.



    Buttery mashed potatoes and gravy next to a nice rib-eye steak are mighty hard to beat.

    If the baker in this case wants to take this to the U.S. Supreme Court he might be able to do that but my guess is that he would lose.
    Last edited by shrubnose; 12-14-13 at 02:08 PM.

  5. #125
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Buttery mashed potatoes and gravy next to a nice rib-eye steak are mighty hard to beat.
    yes, i love it more when the rib-eye is "prime beef"...although "choice" is very good.

  6. #126
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    has the bakery owner been convicted of a crime,
    The baker did not commit a crime. He performed an illegal act, an act need not be a crime to be illegal.

    He has been found in violation of the law, the only action at this point was for an injunction not to do it again in the future. Any future violations could result in (a) fines, and (b) loss of business license.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    will he have a "Record" of conviction for the rest of his life..........
    There is a court record of the illegal act and the injunction that resulted. He will not have a "Criminal Record" as there was not a crime. His business though will have a court record reflecting the injunction.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    "No" its not a criminal case.
    Agreed, though it is irrelevant.


    >>>>>

  7. #127
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Good Lord, how tiresome. A suggestion: Use italics to emphasize, that way you don't have to issue a disclaimer every time.

    You should link back and read the post I was responding to. The individual (E.B.) was using capitals, bolds, and large fonts. When I mentioned it to him he said (and I paraphrase) "I'm not shouting, I'm emphasizing". My use of the CAPTIALS and disclaimer was some internet sarcasm.




    >>>>

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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    The baker did not commit a crime. He performed an illegal act, an act need not be a crime to be illegal.

    He has been found in violation of the law, the only action at this point was for an injunction not to do it again in the future. Any future violations could result in (a) fines, and (b) loss of business license.



    There is a court record of the illegal act and the injunction that resulted. He will not have a "Criminal Record" as there was not a crime. His business though will have a court record reflecting the injunction.



    Agreed, though it is irrelevant.


    >>>>>
    sorry no..... one must be convicted of a crime, to be put into involuntary servitude.

    Involuntary servitude is a United States legal and constitutional term for a person laboring against that person's will to benefit another, under some form of coercion other than the worker's financial needs. While laboring to benefit another occurs also in the condition of slavery, involuntary servitude does not necessarily connote the complete lack of freedom experienced in chattel slavery; involuntary servitude may also refer to other forms of unfree labor. Involuntary servitude is not dependent upon compensation or its amount.

    The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution makes involuntary servitude illegal under any U.S. jurisdiction whether at the hands of the U.S. government or in the private sphere, except as punishment for a crime: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

  9. #129
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    sorry no..... one must be convicted of a crime, to be put into involuntary servitude.

    Public Accommodation laws don't involve involuntary servitude becaues the voluntarily open a business and voluntarily choose which goods and services that business will offer. They are free at any time to not offer such goods and remove it from their options. Public Accommodation laws do require that if goods and services are voluntarily offered they must be offered without discrimination based on criteria defined in the law.


    >>>>

  10. #130
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    Re: Judge Enforces Law: Did this judge rule right according to law and facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    You should link back and read the post I was responding to. The individual (E.B.) was using capitals, bolds, and large fonts. When I mentioned it to him he said (and I paraphrase) "I'm not shouting, I'm emphasizing". My use of the CAPTIALS and disclaimer was some internet sarcasm.




    >>>>
    You mean, like, read the entire thread? Good God man...

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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