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Thread: One way trip to Mars

  1. #261
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    Re: One way trip to Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Exactly, the Spaniards showed up to hand out hugs to the local populace, and to their surprise the natives ran up to them in and in perfect Spanish said "Si, Senor!"
    Right. At least...what was left of the natives after they had spent hundreds of years slaughtering each other and sacrificing the 'others' to their gods.

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    Re: One way trip to Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Prior to Columbus' (and others ) arrival the indigenous folk were not a happy band of land loving hippies. They were warring, brutal, fought and slaughtered one another, seized property, took slaves, in some cases practiced cannibalism, and for their era, were horrible to the land and environment. Europeans simply were better armed, better prepared, more advanced. In short...they did the same things...only better.

    I dont know if the Mars trip would actually take place...but I can see a whole lot of people that might be less than thrilled with their current existence or prospects of a future that might think...man...what an experience..and willingly sign up and go.



    Obviously different people have different motivations for the things that they do or try to do. Some people would like to go to Mars to advance scientific knowledge.

    Others would like to try to ensure the survival of the human race.

    And, of course as you say, still others would just like to see and explore the Red Planet.

    I don't have a problem with any of these reasons for going to Mars.

  3. #263
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    Re: One way trip to Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You probably shouldnt get your 'history' from books that come with crayons and how to draw guides. Oh...wait...you think prior to Columbus' arrival, the indigenous people were peaceful and did NOT go around slaughtering each other. You think it was the Euro settlers that were evil. Pray tell...why do mejicans speak Spanish today? Was than a natural evolution of the Mayan language?

    Try reading again. The topic is the dangers of micro-organisms that are invasive. Let me explain what "invasive" means, since clearly you don't understand what that means.

    "Invasive species" means that it is a species of life - micro-organism, plant, fish, animal - that is not natural to the area. For that reason, there is no evolved safeguards within nature to keep that species in check. The result frequently is the "invasive" species destroys indigenous species and can severely harm the ecosystem. "Ecosystem" means the living life environment.

    Pause for a moment and then read this again, since those are difficult concepts for some people to understand.

    In light of that, the topic is not whether "indigenous" peoples to the Americas were good or bad. So I will sidestep your simplistic comment on "indigenous" people of the Americas as if they were all one big tribe all acting the same and the same people. Rather, that diseases brought from the West that were not indigenous to the Americas resulted in literal genocide of peoples to the East, as significant as causing extinction of entire human races and massive deaths among others.

    This is getting really complicated, huh? Sorry, I can't draw crayon pictures on the forum to help you understand this high school level complexity. So pause again and read back over it.

    Thus, the topic was not your debating old cowboy-and-indian movies and your support of the cowboys. But you'd probably enjoy starting a thread on the topic elsewhere. The topic is the potential danger of bringing invasive micro-organism from elsewhere than earth, since time and again scientific organizations have stated they have discovered "alien" micro-organisms both on the moon, fossils of micro-organisms in meteorites, and the base elements for the formation of micro-organisms.

    Granted, you might be a religious zealot who believes that a God make the entire universe singularly for humans and limited life in the universe to earth. You might want to start a topic of that on the Religion Board and possibly would feel more at home there.

    Finally, along the long and confusing to you reasoning, the topic is whether there is a danger of bringing an "alien" micro-organism from "space" to earth that is destructive of humans and/or other life forms on earth for which there is no evolved safeguards. Again, you may wish to argue against evolution on the Religion board.

    Oh, "alien" in the above paragraph does not mean illegal immigrants. I don't want to confuse you more than your message declares you are. "Alien" in the above paragraph means "not from earth." Since the topic is traveling away from earth and returning material not from earth to earth, "alien" is used in that context.

    Pause again, read all of this over again - as this is getting quite long for you and involves more than a single summary statement.

    In the context of the above (if you do not understand "context" as I use it here let me know and I will TRY to explain it to you), people of the West brought "invasive" species of micro-organisms that were deadly to many races of humans who had no evolved natural defenses against it, despite being human. However, because they were human, some peoples of some of those races survived. As "alien" micro-organisms are both invasive and alien, it is possible that human life and/or other life on earth would have no direct nor indirect evolved safeguards against such a mirco-organism if it is harmful. The result could be the extinction of the human race.

    The response that other member gave to the possible sudden extinction of the human race and/or other species on earth was essentially that he believes we should risk extinction of the human race and any or all other life on earth included for the excitement of taking that risk.

    ^ That is the topic in relation to Indigenous Americans.

  4. #264
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    Re: One way trip to Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Prior to Columbus' (and others ) arrival the indigenous folk were not a happy band of land loving hippies. They were warring, brutal, fought and slaughtered one another, seized property, took slaves, in some cases practiced cannibalism, and for their era, were horrible to the land and environment. Europeans simply were better armed, better prepared, more advanced. In short...they did the same things...only better.
    In some ways, your simplistic "them" v. "us" views are certainly easier. Bigotry is simplistic reasoning, isn't it? To just put all White people into a generic "us" and all non-white people into a generic "them," and then debate from that perspective. You also like the simplistic ethic of all evil is justified if anyone else has done it.

    I don't want to unsettle your simplistic and false view that all Indigenous peoples were not similar, nor your simplistic and false view that all white people were identical in actions and perspectives either. This is American, "land of the free" and you may proudly fly a Stormfront flag and defend your white pride heritage as a result IF that is what you wish. Whether you actually do or not, I don't know.

    As for your having some compulsion to declare loyalty to your white ancestors feeling some need to do so, my only comment is that more Europeans "slaughtered" each other over the Americas than they "slaughtered" Indigenous Americans. What mostly "slaughtered" indigenous people was disease, which inadvertently allowed easy conquest of most American Indigenous peoples due to radically reduced numbers. However, not all were defeated and/or subjugated. "My people" defeated "your white people." Always.

    Actually, "my people" "slaughtered" more "Euro settlers" than the other way around. The only wars on USA homeland the USA ever lost was to my people. Three wars, to be exact. three wars your "Euro settlers" lost on continental United States. Even the great Indian killer Andrew Jackson couldn't convince his fellow white people to go try to defeat "my people" anymore. Since this before the governments (state and federal) could go into debt, the wars also could no longer be afforded. Trying to resolve this with the promise of having the land captured also didn't work well since those who captured land would subsequently be "slaughtered" each time.

    The desire to defeat "my people" (as you divide up races) was great, as exactly contrary to "your people," my people were not racists and took in large numbers of runaway black slaves, infuriating your murderously and torturously bigoted ancestors - for which I'm certain that they, like your logic, defended such bigotry pointing to cruelty among blacks in African.

    Thus your ancestors fought my people hoping to kill or re-enslave those runaway black slaves, and my people fought to stop your people - and pretty much slaughtered "your people." 1 war - USA whites lost. 2nd war - USA whites lost. 3rd war - USA whites lost. I'm certain you didn't know that, as they don't show that in your old cowboy movies.

    You know, my slaughtering ancestors. They were particularly good at slaughtering white people. They got along great with all Indigenous Americans and all Africans. There is no known history of them at war with any other indigenous peoples. They only "slaughtered" white people who would build on their land. Or maybe they just enjoyed killing white people, can't know for certain I suppose.

    Finally, "Euro settlers" (as you naively call them) gave up trying for which "my people" have held their land before, during and since the "Euro settlers" came along with their "black" slaves - a practice I'm certain you supported and likely wish returned to given Africans also slaughtered each other.

    I'm confident that any actual historian would dispute your portrayal of Indigenous Americans along the entire East Coast from Maine to Florida. Your view is based upon watching cowboy movies of wagon trains crossing the Southwest and the plains "Indians." Most of the Great Plains and Southwest Native Americans were bad ass bastards, but they also were rather stupid in my opinion, as in primitive. In your simplistic racial and ethnic "them" v. "us" view of the world, apparently you believe all Native Americans were Apache and Comanche' - since that is what they show in cowboy shows.

    I was raised by among a different "tribe" - if it could be called that. As of when I left, they still enjoy killing white people, but only had rare opportunity - fortunately.

    These are complicated topics not suited to one-liner generic platitudes.
    Last edited by joko104; 12-13-13 at 01:17 PM.

  5. #265
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    Re: One way trip to Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    In some ways, your simplistic "them" v. "us" views are certainly easier. Bigotry is simplistic reasoning, isn't it? To just put all White people into a generic "us" and all non-white people into a generic "them," and then debate from that perspective. You also like the simplistic ethic of all evil is justified if anyone else has done it.

    I don't want to unsettle your simplistic and false view that all Indigenous peoples were not similar, nor your simplistic and false view that all white people were identical in actions and perspectives either. This is American, "land of the free" and you may proudly fly a Stormfront flag and defend your white pride heritage as a result IF that is what you wish. Whether you actually do or not, I don't know.

    As for your having some compulsion to declare loyalty to your white ancestors feeling some need to do so, my only comment is that more Europeans "slaughtered" each other over the Americas than they "slaughtered" Indigenous Americans. What mostly "slaughtered" indigenous people was disease, which inadvertently allowed easy conquest of most American Indigenous peoples due to radically reduced numbers. However, not all were defeated and/or subjugated. "My people" defeated "your white people." Always.

    Actually, "my people" "slaughtered" more "Euro settlers" than the other way around. The only wars on USA homeland the USA ever lost was to my people. Three wars, to be exact. three wars your "Euro settlers" lost on continental United States. Even the great Indian killer Andrew Jackson couldn't convince his fellow white people to go try to defeat "my people" anymore. Since this before the governments (state and federal) could go into debt, the wars also could no longer be afforded. Trying to resolve this with the promise of having the land captured also didn't work well since those who captured land would subsequently be "slaughtered" each time.

    The desire to defeat "my people" (as you divide up races) was great, as exactly contrary to "your people," my people were not racists and took in large numbers of runaway black slaves, infuriating your murderously and torturously bigoted ancestors - for which I'm certain that they, like your logic, defended such bigotry pointing to cruelty among blacks in African.

    Thus your ancestors fought my people hoping to kill or re-enslave those runaway black slaves, and my people fought to stop your people - and pretty much slaughtered "your people." 1 war - USA whites lost. 2nd war - USA whites lost. 3rd war - USA whites lost. I'm certain you didn't know that, as they don't show that in your old cowboy movies.

    You know, my slaughtering ancestors. They were particularly good at slaughtering white people. They got along great with all Indigenous Americans and all Africans. There is no known history of them at war with any other indigenous peoples. They only "slaughtered" white people who would build on their land. Or maybe they just enjoyed killing white people, can't know for certain I suppose.

    Finally, "Euro settlers" (as you naively call them) gave up trying for which "my people" have held their land before, during and since the "Euro settlers" came along with their "black" slaves - a practice I'm certain you supported and likely wish returned to given Africans also slaughtered each other.

    I'm confident that any actual historian would dispute your portrayal of Indigenous Americans along the entire East Coast from Maine to Florida. Your view is based upon watching cowboy movies of wagon trains crossing the Southwest and the plains "Indians." Most of the Great Plains and Southwest Native Americans were bad ass bastards, but they also were rather stupid in my opinion, as in primitive. In your simplistic racial and ethnic "them" v. "us" view of the world, apparently you believe all Native Americans were Apache and Comanche' - since that is what they show in cowboy shows.

    I was raised by among a different "tribe" - if it could be called that. As of when I left, they still enjoy killing white people, but only had rare opportunity - fortunately.

    These are complicated topics not suited to one-liner generic platitudes.
    Look how cute you are with your little outrage and pathetic attempt to try to make 'history' racist.



    Id suggest you are 'better than that'...but I'm not sure I see evidence to the contrary.

  6. #266
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    Re: One way trip to Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Look how cute you are with your little outrage and pathetic attempt to try to make 'history' racist.



    Id suggest you are 'better than that'...but I'm not sure I see evidence to the contrary.
    Just trying to make the topic easier for you. Did it help you?

  7. #267
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    Re: One way trip to Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    If it is a private project that'd be great. And if as profitable as claimed I'm sure people will line up to invest big money.

    It'd also make a pretty good scam someone could run on investors.
    True dat.
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  8. #268
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    Re: One way trip to Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Just trying to make the topic easier for you. Did it help you?
    Your moronic foray itno racism? Nope...didnt do a thing for me.Frankly...It didnt do much for you either...but if thats the best you have, I guess it will have to do.

  9. #269
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    Re: One way trip to Mars

    Trip to Mars is absurd IMO.

    If we want to make a huge government program to rival the early Moon race days, you have two glaringly wonderful options today, both of which could spur far more economic growth as a side-effect:

    1. Massive Medical Science projects that involve the world and as many people via internet as possible. not this map the brain stuff, that would be a drop in the bucket compared to what the space program would cost, I mean 10x the size/scope, maybe 100x (you get the idea)
    Diabetes, Cancer, Heart Disease, hell anything that kills our kids, the list is endless. And like the international space station, it would be global, big-tent.

    2. Artificial intelligence - the implications for technology, feeding the world, etc., staggering. It would potentially be very disruptive if we achieved it though, and lots of old traditionalist outrage and religious backlash, so this one is a complete pipe dream. Have a thinking machine online by 2030. Someone's gonna do it one day ;0

    We have such a staggering number of frontiers to push on that are far more immediate, and pertinent to our lives and the lives of our children. Trip to Mars is anything *mars* is just a big waste IMO.

    We did the moon for military reasons, we didn't do it purely for the science btw. (talking out of my arse, sorry)

  10. #270
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    Re: One way trip to Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Being sober isn't so bad.

    Without a vision, the people perish.

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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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