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Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

Is a white South African, American citizen...considered an African american?


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White is a white. Black is a black. African-American is liberal nonsense.
 
Would you be cool with this.... African decent? Its still better than Negro and Negroid, and it has African in the same which will make some people happy.

I am just asking to ask. You seem to be complaining about hyphens, so there. What do you say?



Hey... this Euro-American doesn't care what you call yourself. If you think it's important for people to know you're of African descent and worry they might not be able to figure it out without you adding "African-hyphen" to the "American" label, it's all good. You wouldn't want to be mistaken for someone of Swedish descent. That would be a very bad thing. :) The more we can focus on how different we are, the better it is for everyone.
 
Would you be cool with this.... African decent? Its still better than Negro and Negroid, and it has African in the same which will make some people happy.
Who is better? Negros are not shy about the color of their skin.
 
Yes, they are born in Africa and thus are entitled to being called an African American.

It's silly that we equate "African American" with "black" and also assume that all black people are of African heritage. When I went to Haiti the black people there didn't want to be called Africans and those that moved to the US did not want to be called "African Americans." Their identiy was Haitian and we were told referring to people in Haiti as Africans or being of African decent is considered rude and improper as well as referring to Haitian immigrants as African Americans if they move to the US. I have friends who were born in Egypt that applied for African American scholarships. One actually got it but then had the funds removed when they realized he was of Arab decent even though he was born in Africa in Egypt.

African American should not be used as a term to denote race or ethnicity. I don't think people would lump people from India, China, eastern Russia, or Malaysia as "Asian Americans" and no one refers to whites as "European Americans." African American may be a more prefered term by some, but it's improper to assume all blacks are African Americans and to say that people born in Africa that immigrated here are not African Americans.
 
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Would you be cool with this.... African decent? Its still better than Negro and Negroid, and it has African in the same which will make some people happy.

I am just asking to ask. You seem to be complaining about hyphens, so there. What do you say?

As far as I'm concerned, the hyphen between two countries indicates someone needs to make up their mind which side of the hyphen they are and get jiggy wid' it. All the hyphen tells me is that being an American like everyone else, in your mind, isn't good enough for you. Either we drink at the same water fountains or we don't. Sooner or later, we're going to have to make up our mind whether we're all equal and all Americans or whether we aren't. If you're a hyphenated American, you are making yourself something else from the rest of us. And that's OK as long as you don't scratch your head wondering why you ge treated like you're something else from the rest of us. If you like drawing that line, then accept that a line has been drawn. I'm OK with that then. We have lots of people here that aren't really Americans and I don't begrudge any of them being here as long as they're here legally. You don't have to love this country to live in it.
 
Thanks for pointing that out, I meant eastern Russia.

Russians virtually exterminated Asian peoples of Siberia (eastern Russia) so that there are now living mostly Europeans.
 
And, I suppose with "the fight", it's not over till you and your brothers and sisters say it's over. So y'all let the white folks know when you're through fighting and maybe everyone can move forward together. Meanwhile, I've got to get by Cuban-American arse back down to the workshop to get some more production in today. :)

:0) I can tell that we're good to have some juicy debate about Cuba.

With respect to who gets to declare its over .. there is a very logical answer to that question that if you take a moment to think about it, I bet you'll come to the only conclusion.
 
:0) I can tell that we're good to have some juicy debate about Cuba.

With respect to who gets to declare its over .. there is a very logical answer to that question that if you take a moment to think about it, I bet you'll come to the only conclusion.

Yes. Anyone that wants to declare it's over can declare it's over. Those that don't, won't be forced to, however. They'll just end up marginalized into obscurity. Racism might last till the end of time as a fringe element, but it doesn't have to be acceptable.
 
Yes, they are born in Africa and thus are entitled to being called an African American.

That's not why blacks in the US call themselves African-American. :shrug:

hen I went to Haiti the black people there didn't want to be called Africans and those that moved to the US did not want to be called "African Americans."

Because Haiti has a different racial context. Being seen as an African in Haiti is not a good thing.

I have friends who were born in Egypt that applied for African American scholarships. One actually got it but then had the funds removed when they realized he was of Arab decent even though he was born in Africa in Egypt.

I wonder why... maybe because African-American isn't about an African who becomes an American?

African American should not be used as a term to denote race or ethnicity.

Says who? The white boy who doesn't know why blacks in the US refer to themselves as African American to begin with?

Your post is riddled with so much general ignorance it's actually useless to try and school you on the subject. Way beyond repair.
 
My family migrated from Europe, so I will try to explain.

America and Europe are a lot different. Migrating within Europe is a lot different. A lot of European nations are in the EU and recognize movement of labor. I know many new businesses starting up in former USSR, are being started up by people from the West.

Overall, a lot of people are happy with the economic build up. Right now, there is economic tension with Greece, but Europe is peaceful and Europe likes Europe. Nobody is going to start a war.


America has an intense racial history, which people alive today remember.

Then immigrants are coming from all over. And it really sucks if you come from a country America is at war with, or doesn't get along with.

I know people who are ashamed to be immigrants. They are not proud of where they are from...

They want to be American, and only be called American, but they get **** because of the political climate here.

The political climate is divisive as others have said. Middle eastern and Latin immigrants are probably the most distrusted and liked right now, and they are the bull of current immigrants.

I used to date a guy, he was Jewish, born in Israel. He had dark skin and an accent. The accent does sound middle eastern, and he considers Israel part of the middle east. He is a naturalized citizen now, and America is supposed to be pro Israel, but when he first came here, a couple of cops approached him on the beach, realized he didn't speak the best English and made some racist anti eastern comments that he understood.

He said damn I wonder if they'd have shown me more respect if they knew I was I was from Israel.


I said, why bother. They shouldn't do it anyway, and they are too ignorant to understand anything about Israel beyond politics.











Curious that after all these years, you don't just think of yourselves as United Statesian.

In Europe as a rule, it only seems to take one generation or even less for people to feel assimilated. For example, I mix with black people every day who don't say they're African-French or West Indian-French but simply French. Similarly when I lived in the UK, people of all colours and backgrounds were just British. My own background is a tapestry but having arrived in the UK relatively young and obtained the citizenship I quickly became British. Similarly I now have French citizenship, hence I'm French with no complexes.

Of course I don't forget my roots. I could claim to be Italo-Slovene-Anglo-French. But that would be:
a) pretentious, and
b) unnecessary.

When are you United Statesians going to get over your hang-ups?
 
That's not why blacks in the US call themselves African-American. :shrug:



Because Haiti has a different racial context. Being seen as an African in Haiti is not a good thing.



I wonder why... maybe because African-American isn't about an African who becomes an American?



Says who? The white boy who doesn't know why blacks in the US refer to themselves as African American to begin with?

Your post is riddled with so much general ignorance it's actually useless to try and school you on the subject. Way beyond repair.

Doesn't refute the point that "African American" shouldn't be exclusive to blacks and that any other race, from Africa, that calls themselves "African American" is wrong in doing so. People can be proud of their heritage or homeland and label themselves as such.

My friends from Egypt had their family history in Africa. They were born in Egypt and their family history is traced to Egypt for as long as they can remember. They moved to the US from Africa, they have every right to use the title "African American" and should be allowed to make use of that terminology. A white person born and raised in Africa has Africa as their homeland. An Arab person born and raised in Africa has Africa as their homeland. It's wrong to deny that person the ability or to tell them it's wrong to call themselves "African Americans" because they aren't black.

Also, my status as a predominantly white person with Native American heritage means nothing when it comes to the argument. My friends from Egypt weren't allowed to label themselves as African Americans despite being born in Africa and having their family heritage being there. Doesn't also change the fact that a white person, or any other person, born on the African continent has Africa as a homeland and should be allowed to properly denote themselves as an "African American." To have "African American" synonymous with "black" is improper and should be changed.
 
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Personally, I just think this is a game of semantics myself.

I'll break it down for you....

White South Africans fall into the racial category of white, caucasian.

Their ethnicity... most likely Saxon or germanic, or both

They are from... South Africa


They traditionally call themselves.... Akrikaan


And that is that. Anything else, semantic nonsense

I'm not trolling you -- I'm using it as an example of how your argument falls into a 'reductio ad absurdum' trap.

You say that Afrikaners would not be considered African-American because they're not 'originally' from Africa -- they're just transplanted Dutchmen. I'm saying, how long do you need to stay in a place for you to be 'from' there? Surely the centuries the Afrikaners have been in Africa qualifies them as more African than the majority of Liberians, for example, as they're mostly transplanted slaves from the Americas?

The point of my example is, the Afrikaners ARE 'from' Africa, because they've been there so long. If you negate their claim based on the fact that half a millennium ago their ancestors were from the Netherlands, I can equally negate your claim that the Dutch are European -- they're just transplanted Africans.

The overall point is, making it about where your ancestors are 'from' is indeed racist, because you're essentially saying that your only criteria for determining where someone is 'from' is based on the colour of their skin.

If that were not true, you would obviously accept the Afrikaners as Africans, not Europeans.
 
I know people who are ashamed to be immigrants.
It is sux to be an immigrant. I envy people who were born in this beautiful and God blessed country.
 
Doesn't refute the point that "African American" shouldn't be exclusive to blacks and that any other race, from Africa, that calls themselves "African American" is wrong in doing so.

Actually it does because neither Africans, nor Haitians, nor Egyptians call themselves African-American to begin with. Your imaginary friend piggy backing an African-American scholarship doesn't change the fact he isn't African-American anymore than the Amish are Dutch citizens. :shrug: Your initial misstep starts at the part where you think "African-American" is synonymous with "black". However, a black man can be an African, and still not be an African American. He can also be African-American without being an African.

Your juvenile gotcha game by citing your general ignorance of Haiti's racial context is absolutely laughable though. Whereas African-Americans have come to embrace their cultural roots, Haiti is practically in the 19th century when it comes to what it means to be a person of African Ancestry. The most the black community in the Caribbean has managed to embrace is a made for tourists Afro-Caribbean game of dress-up. Bet you didn't know that though. Must have been on one of those missionary missions where you get to claim you understand the people in that country without actually having to live next to them.

As far as Egyptians go, being born in Africa and moving to America doesn't make you an African-American. Why? Again, we go back to my first point. African-American is a reference to a specific type of African ancestry and not the black race. The same way the census has sought to differentiate between white hispanics, black hispanics and asian hispanics, African-American differentiates between blacks born in the US to other blacks born in the US, and blacks who have no historical ties to the US of any sort. Maybe your friend would have better luck applying for an Arab-American or an Egyptian-American scholarship. Here are some: ;)

http://www.aaiusa.org/pages/scholarships/

http://www.adc.org/education/arab-american-scholarships/

http://www.arabamerica.com/news.php?id=3940

Here are the Egyptian-American scholarships:

http://www.scholars4dev.com/tag/scholarships-for-egyptians/

http://www1.aucegypt.edu/catalog02/geninfo/university/scholar-fell/scholar-fell.html

Tell him I send him my best wishes in getting Egyptian-American/Arab-American scholarships that people realized weren't tailored for African-Americans and appropriately labeled them.

Seriously, you're way out of your league here. Your perspective (if a 3rd rate understanding of race can be called that) is based on your glossing of racial context and completely ethnocentric view of black history.
 
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Its a free country. Its legal to have German American Clubs and culture festivals. It was not legal to have such clubs in the USSR, because it offended the Communist Party. Every club had to be pro communist or neutral, to not offend the commies.

And the commies knew they could force people celebrating pre communist culture in clubs to change the names of those clubs, but they couldn't force them to stop actually doing anything. So the German Clubs changed their offical name and posed as a bowling club. And the commies sent spies into bowling clubs, sewing clubs, etc., and people we sent to Siberia.



So yeah, you can play semantics all you want, and demand people stop saying xyz, but it really amounts to nothing. They will still do it under your nose.

America stands for individual freedom and liberty, not conformity.





To those that are made uncomfortable by them, they certainly are. Heck even when a women chooses to use a hyphenated married name she's pissing someone off.

Not sure where you're going with the songs and team names.
 
How can you argue that something is this, and that you don't care?

That makes no sense.

If it doesn't bother you, how can you accurately judge it as divisive?


I've said I don't care what someone else calls themselves. And it's true, I don't care about that. I just wonder why someone WANTS to make sure everyone knows they're not a regular American like everyone else, but some sort of "special" American, instead. I think it's very divisive but I don't really care that someone wants to be divisive. That's their business. I just wonder why it's so important to them to maintain a line of differentiation between "us" and "them".
 
Its a free country. Its legal to have German American Clubs and culture festivals. It was not legal to have such clubs in the USSR, because it offended the Communist Party. Every club had to be pro communist or neutral, to not offend the commies.

And the commies knew they could force people celebrating pre communist culture in clubs to change the names of those clubs, but they couldn't force them to stop actually doing anything. So the German Clubs changed their offical name and posed as a bowling club. And the commies sent spies into bowling clubs, sewing clubs, etc., and people we sent to Siberia.

So yeah, you can play semantics all you want, and demand people stop saying xyz, but it really amounts to nothing. They will still do it under your nose.

America stands for individual freedom and liberty, not conformity.

I love that all the self determination, social independence conservatives get on the bandwagon about everyone referring to themselves by the same cohesive label. Neo-nationalist bull****. Same people who have no problem with businesses discriminating against gays, blacks, muslims etc have a problem with people labeling themselves as such because it hurts their patriotic feelings. Lolz.
 
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Haiti is not part of Africa. I wouldn't jump to call them African myself.

African American is most likely just an American cultural thing. There is a reason for it.


Yes, they are born in Africa and thus are entitled to being called an African American.

It's silly that we equate "African American" with "black" and also assume that all black people are of African heritage. When I went to Haiti the black people there didn't want to be called Africans and those that moved to the US did not want to be called "African Americans." Their identiy was Haitian and we were told referring to people in Haiti as Africans or being of African decent is considered rude and improper as well as referring to Haitian immigrants as African Americans if they move to the US. I have friends who were born in Egypt that applied for African American scholarships. One actually got it but then had the funds removed when they realized he was of Arab decent even though he was born in Africa in Egypt.

African American should not be used as a term to denote race or ethnicity. I don't think people would lump people from India, China, eastern Russia, or Malaysia as "Asian Americans" and no one refers to whites as "European Americans." African American may be a more prefered term by some, but it's improper to assume all blacks are African Americans and to say that people born in Africa that immigrated here are not African Americans.
 
Modern Russian people traveled North and founded Muscovy, and then expanded out to build a massive empire. Thanks to the Ivans, Peter, and Catherine, it was the largest, continuous land mass empire.

True orgin is probably North of Ukraine. Russians and Siberians are different. Just as the people living in England's colonies in Africa were different, native people to the Congo were not ethnically or culturally British.


Thanks for pointing that out, I meant eastern Russia.
 
How can you argue that something is this, and that you don't care?

That makes no sense.

If it doesn't bother you, how can you accurately judge it as divisive?

Some people want to be divisive. And since we have freedom of speech, people have every right to be racist, divisive or whatever else their choice of speech might be. How much do you want to be bothered by things you can't control and are actually the rights of other people? People can label themselves whatever they want for whatever reason they want. And everyone else can take it for what it's worth. I don't think its worth anything at all that people call themselves "African-American" except for stimulating discussions like these.
 
Yes. Anyone that wants to declare it's over can declare it's over. Those that don't, won't be forced to, however. They'll just end up marginalized into obscurity. Racism might last till the end of time as a fringe element, but it doesn't have to be acceptable.

I like that .. it doesn't have to be acceptable .. and America has come a long way towards that end. But I don't care what side one may be on, no one can sanely declare racism over with the criminal injustice system in this country. It would just be silly to declare racism over with the impediments republicans invent to disenfranchise black voters in this country. I could go on, but you can't just declare racism dead without considering the perspectives of its intended victims. That just doesn't make any sense no matter whatever.
 
African American is most likely just an American cultural thing. There is a reason for it.

Right on both counts. I just don't think there is a good[/] reason for it. As BAC pointed out, the "fight"ain't over". Some people just do their part to keep it going.
 
Some people want to be divisive. And since we have freedom of speech, people have every right to be racist, divisive or whatever else their choice of speech might be. How much do you want to be bothered by things you can't control and are actually the rights of other people? People can label themselves whatever they want for whatever reason they want. And everyone else can take it for what it's worth. I don't think its worth anything at all that people call themselves "African-American" except for stimulating discussions like these.

:0) I'm wondering when has unity and social diversity and harmony ever been a core of conservatism?

Liberals openly talk about it.

Help me out brother.
 
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