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Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

Is a white South African, American citizen...considered an African american?


  • Total voters
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I accidentally voted yes, and meant to vote no.

South Africa is a former colony and consists of dozens of ethnicity, cultures, and languages. It has 17 official recognized languages.

Some white South Africans are very culturally Afrikaans, and speak mostly Afrikaans. Other white South Africans speak English, and are from more recent European immigrants.

Once a person from South Africa is a naturalized American citizen, then they are Americans. I don't consider them South African Americans, Afrikaans Americans, Zulu Americans, etc. They are 100 percent Americans.

As for racial classification.... The term African American and all other racial classifications has typically been controversial and confusing. However, it is has been about race and skin color, its never been about geography or place of immigration.

But we typically don't find the phrase "African American" as offensive as former terms used to describe the people; nergo and negroid are considered offensive by most modern people, therefore, we are going with African American for now. Mongoloid was another official race people were classified under, and that also sounds offensive.

I personally think caucasian also sounds ridiculous. Why not just say European decent???

Why not just say African decent?

That would make more sense to me.
 
I am inclined to agree with you on some of this, but racial identification may actually serve a purpose in medicine and identifying people. It also has a meaningful place in many anthropological studies, researching our genomes, and studying ancient humans.

Here's an interesting take on things. I think of race as B.S. It's something played on by people with an agenda. I think of us as humans. So this isn't a race ploy, I suppose I want to prove a point here.


Is a white of skin color, south african...that immigrates to the United States....now considered an African American?


Put that in your pipe and smoke it race baiters on both sides.
 
Obvious bait thread is obvious. A thread where an adopted, culturally and historically ignorant OP gets to rant that nobody cared about his heritage enough to give it to him on his adoption file. Lame threads like this makes me miss aquapub's threads.

Culturally ignorant? Please. Historically ignorant? Oh boy, let's have a debate, this will be comical. First off, it's a melting pot. I know you'd love to see every flag of the world waved in America, just to show how we are special little snowflakes and oh so accepting, I would just like to see the stars and stripes. You know, since this is America...the lack of nationalism in the left is absolutely baffling. Is it so bad to be American? The phrase "I'm an American" is like mental pepper spray to the lockstep liberal.

As mentioned, I was raised by a Sicilian and an Irishman, that upon getting citizenship, no longer referred to themselves as the such. Recognized the melting pot ideology that made this country great, and embraced it with both arms (like real Americans do). I am far more "cultured" (if that's what you call traveling to foreign places, eating food, seeing historical objects/sites/buildings/artwork, I just call it traveling and eating) than you give me credit for, I've seen, well quite a bit. Been quite a few places. There's no-place like home. Home is not where your ancestors or parents came from...it's here.

My parents call themselves American. What's your excuse? Embrace your country, I promise, it's not so bad.


and what the hell was I baiting? Someone clue me in here. Catalyzing a conversation many don't want to have isn't baiting.
 
Skipping to the end of the thread, and then will go back and reread it.

I heard about a girl who was born and raised in Africa, but was white. She came to America, applied to college and applied as an African American. They wouldn't let her apply as an African American because she was white, even though she was more African American than most of the black kids in the school.

If she's from Africa, and immigrated to America, she is African American. Just my two cents.
 
I agree with eco that your arguments are nihilistic. You render everything as meaningless.


Congratulations! This is indeed progress! I'm impressed. If you continue to improve at this extreme rate, I imagine we will be able to get a considered and (dare we dream it?) intelligible argument out of you in just a few short years. I have to say, that's better than my initial projection.

Now, since you were the one to bring etymology into the discussion, you can hardly get upset at my use of semantics. Well, obviously you can as evidenced by your crude attempts to demean me, but it is rather silly.

My comment was based on the fact that being native is a binary state. There aren't degrees of being native. You can apply it to being born somewhere, in which case anyone born in the US is native to the US or you can apply it culturally, in which case no culture is shown to be truly native to the US. It's intellectually dishonest (a cute little phrase I enjoy) to say that one culture is more native than another.

It's probably worth mentioning that I don't care what a group wants to call themselves to divide themselves from being American. I chimed in for much the same reason I play the Highlights games in doctors' offices. The atmosphere and previous arguments reminded me of childhood for some reason. Political correctness is hardly an intellectual pursuit and I mostly just find it entertaining to watch the foolishness as a spectator.
 
I accidentally voted yes, and meant to vote no.

South Africa is a former colony and consists of dozens of ethnicity, cultures, and languages. It has 17 official recognized languages.

Some white South Africans are very culturally Afrikaans, and speak mostly Afrikaans. Other white South Africans speak English, and are from more recent European immigrants.

Once a person from South Africa is a naturalized American citizen, then they are Americans. I don't consider them South African Americans, Afrikaans Americans, Zulu Americans, etc. They are 100 percent Americans.

As for racial classification.... The term African American and all other racial classifications has typically been controversial and confusing. However, it is has been about race and skin color, its never been about geography or place of immigration.

But we typically don't find the phrase "African American" as offensive as former terms used to describe the people; nergo and negroid are considered offensive by most modern people, therefore, we are going with African American for now. Mongoloid was another official race people were classified under, and that also sounds offensive.

I personally think caucasian also sounds ridiculous. Why not just say European decent???

Why not just say African decent?

That would make more sense to me.

20 or so years ago my wife was attending a class to get her ready for her naturalization test before she became an American citizen. She was taught that we are all Americans, that there is no such thing as an hyphenated American. That regardless of where you are from or born, what race, religion, etc. we are all Americans. That is how I look at it too.
 
I used to read a blog, I think it was called Things Black People Love. It was fairly entertaining, and recall the love of Clinton being strong, not so much enthusiasm for Sharpton, West, or C Thomas that I recall.

I just thought was kind of funny given your statement.


I have one such friend. We kid around about her being African American all the time. Similar fun designations were assigned to Theresa Kerry, an immigrant from Mozambique, when her husband John Kerry was the Democrat nominee for President in 2004.

Free insight into black culture: most blacks don't see ethnicity when they think of "the black community." They think of choosing to be a part of, identifying with and being supportive America's population; at least first and foremost. People like Robin Thicke, Michael Pfleger and Bill Clinton are thought of as part of the African American community more than Allen West, Alan Keyes and Clarence Thomas because the "white guys" are seen as intentionally choosing to identify with the black population while the "black guys" I listed are true or false perceived as intentionally choosing to not identify with the black population. Not completely but to an extent especially at the social level.
 
Here's an interesting take on things. I think of race as B.S. It's something played on by people with an agenda. I think of us as humans. So this isn't a race ploy, I suppose I want to prove a point here.


Is a white of skin color, south african...that immigrates to the United States....now considered an African American?


Put that in your pipe and smoke it race baiters on both sides.

If he becomes an American citizen then he should be just an American.Americans should quit hanging onto former nationalities.
 
I knew a girl originally from Argentina, and she lived in America for several years, and then moved to Spain with her fiancé.

She always said that she had three countries to be proud of, and I saw nothing wrong with that.

My grandparents and great-grandparents are my heroes, and they survived wars, displacement, and genocide, and I am proud of my heritage, my ancesty, and have lived in and traveled to Europe.

I personally don't understand your apathy, but I am fine with you being the way you are. however I'm not okay with you telling me that I am wrong and that I should feel the same exact way as you.





Culturally ignorant? Please. Historically ignorant? Oh boy, let's have a debate, this will be comical. First off, it's a melting pot. I know you'd love to see every flag of the world waved in America, just to show how we are special little snowflakes and oh so accepting, I would just like to see the stars and stripes. You know, since this is America...the lack of nationalism in the left is absolutely baffling. Is it so bad to be American? The phrase "I'm an American" is like mental pepper spray to the lockstep liberal.

As mentioned, I was raised by a Sicilian and an Irishman, that upon getting citizenship, no longer referred to themselves as the such. Recognized the melting pot ideology that made this country great, and embraced it with both arms (like real Americans do). I am far more "cultured" (if that's what you call traveling to foreign places, eating food, seeing historical objects/sites/buildings/artwork, I just call it traveling and eating) than you give me credit for, I've seen, well quite a bit. Been quite a few places. There's no-place like home. Home is not where your ancestors or parents came from...it's here.

My parents call themselves American. What's your excuse? Embrace your country, I promise, it's not so bad.


and what the hell was I baiting? Someone clue me in here. Catalyzing a conversation many don't want to have isn't baiting.
 
I knew a girl originally from Argentina, and she lived in America for several years, and then moved to Spain with her fiancé.

She always said that she had three countries to be proud of, and I saw nothing wrong with that.

My grandparents and great-grandparents are my heroes, and they survived wars, displacement, and genocide, and I am proud of my heritage, my ancesty, and have lived in and traveled to Europe.

I personally don't understand your apathy, but I am fine with you being the way you are. however I'm not okay with you telling me that I am wrong and that I should feel the same exact way as you.

Oh I'm not saying you're wrong. We're all entitled to our own opinions. I just feel as though the lack of nationalism in America is disheartening.
 
She was taught that we are all Americans, that there is no such thing as an hyphenated American. That regardless of where you are from or born, what race, religion, etc. we are all Americans.

Wow! I never heard it put that way. That's very profound.
 
Wow! I never heard it put that way. That's very profound.

She became a citizen in the early 90's and that was what the immigration folks were teaching back then. Of course back then or some time before then were blacks and before then Negros. Terms like African-American and Native-American were just being invented. I also remember America being referred to as the melting pot of the world. It does seems like we have take one huge step backwards doesn't it?
 
I used to read a blog, I think it was called Things Black People Love. It was fairly entertaining, and recall the love of Clinton being strong, not so much enthusiasm for Sharpton, West, or C Thomas that I recall.

I just thought was kind of funny given your statement.

Sounds about right. Before Obama, Clinton was known affectionately as "the first black president" by blacks, and it was a designation Clinton truly seemed flattered and honored to have.

As a black republican (currently a very frustrated one), blacks affiliated with the GOP as seen as traitors. The exceptions are Colin Powell and JC Watts. I thinks it's an automatic assumption that if you're black and a republican you're trying to disassociate politically and possibly otherwise with other blacks, when that's not always the case. Once you start standing up for blacks within the GOP as did Powell and Watts when pertainant issues arose, you get your black person credentials back :lamo. Then, unfortunately white republicans label you a RINO and accuse you of "using te race card." Either way, you can't win so just be true to your convictions.
 
I agree with eco that your arguments are nihilistic. You render everything as meaningless.

Thanks for your vote, I guess.

The truth is, it is meaningless. What a group or individual chooses to call themselves doesn't change who/what they are. They are welcome to take on any title they like.

The fact that using a term like Native American completely ignores or maybe even attempts to distort the definition of the word is just a fun point to pick at. The truth is that politics has so badly distorted the language already makes it useless to pretend there is a serious debate to be had about it.
 
Their ancestors are not African.

Since the whole of humanity sprang from Africa, absolutely everyone's ancestors are African.
 
Oh man, I couldn't be further from PC if I had to. Thus, me calling a white south African, an African American. Figured that might stir up the pot a bit.

Because it's every bit as realistic as calling a black man who has never lived in Africa, never had any relatives in recent memory from Africa, an African American. I have a friend who is black but came from Haiti and he gets mad when people tell him he's African American. If anything, he's Haitian-American.
 
Wait a minute, I'm very PC and proud of it. I see PC as social intellectualism. Nonetheless, I see no harm in someone recognizing their ancestry. I don't see it as a divider but a celebration of diversity.

No wonder you have such bizarre beliefs.
 
You're a mutt. There is no such thing as Italian-Irish Americans.

Wait a minute, didn't you just say that it's a celebration of diversity to identify where your ancestors came from? Now you're telling him there's no such thing as Italian-Irish Americans? I guess it only counts for diversity when you apply it to minorities, huh?
 
Wait a minute, I'm very PC and proud of it. I see PC as social intellectualism. Nonetheless, I see no harm in someone recognizing their ancestry. I don't see it as a divider but a celebration of diversity.

I see PC as intellectual timidity. It allows people to abdicate responsibility to call a spade a spade.
 
Some are having a debate about the language right now, its not impossible or meaningless.



Thanks for your vote, I guess.

The truth is, it is meaningless. What a group or individual chooses to call themselves doesn't change who/what they are. They are welcome to take on any title they like.

The fact that using a term like Native American completely ignores or maybe even attempts to distort the definition of the word is just a fun point to pick at. The truth is that politics has so badly distorted the language already makes it useless to pretend there is a serious debate to be had about it.
 
Culturally ignorant? Please. Historically ignorant? Oh boy, let's have a debate, this will be comical. First off, it's a melting pot. I know you'd love to see every flag of the world waved in America, just to show how we are special little snowflakes and oh so accepting, I would just like to see the stars and stripes. You know, since this is America...the lack of nationalism in the left is absolutely baffling. Is it so bad to be American? The phrase "I'm an American" is like mental pepper spray to the lockstep liberal.

The problem with your argument is that you're not asking for embracing. You're asking for assimilation. People can still maintain their cultural inheritance and still embrace it everyday. Which is what most people do. Giving up cultural inheritance for the sake of 'Murica (assimilation) is nonsense. Now, you can keep going on about your "debate" but there is no debate here. You want people to give up their cultural inheritance for the sake of an America which has never asked them to do so. Ever. The Irish weren't asked to give up their heritage. They haven't. The Asians haven't either. The only people you seem to have a bone with are blacks who care enough about their heritage to call themselves African-American.

Now, this is all aside from the fact that historically African-Americans can be considered second only to Native-Americans in terms of ties to this country. So what are you mad about? Self labeling? It's not like African-Americans are going around wearing dashikis and beating drums. So what is it about this self labeling that bothers you so much? Do you not get a news channel to keep you occupied with important matters?

As mentioned, I was raised by a Sicilian and an Irishman, that upon getting citizenship, no longer referred to themselves as the such.

Good for them. Everyone else doesn't have to give up their heritage simply because your "parents" decided they were no longer Sicilian & Irish. Actually, most people haven't given up on their cultural inheritance. Which is what I guess bothers you so much. Free country though. Deal with it. People label themselves based on the history of their people. My history isn't the same as a Native American's. I don't label myself a "Native-American". My history isn't the same as an Irish American's. So I don't label myself an Irish American. Don't really care about who does or doesn't either. :shrug:

Recognized the melting pot ideology that made this country great, and embraced it with both arms (like real Americans do). I am far more "cultured" (if that's what you call traveling to foreign places, eating food, seeing historical objects/sites/buildings/artwork, I just call it traveling and eating) than you give me credit for, I've seen, well quite a bit. Been quite a few places. There's no-place like home. Home is not where your ancestors or parents came from...it's here.

Read first comment.

My parents call themselves American. What's your excuse? Embrace your country, I promise, it's not so bad.

Embracing =/= assimilate. Your demand is for people to assimilate. Not embrace.

and what the hell was I baiting? Someone clue me in here. Catalyzing a conversation many don't want to have isn't baiting.

Read your last statement in the OP.
 
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I have not always liked the way the Colin Powell has been treated, especially by Rush. And even if he was associated with the Bush administration, he seemed highly respectable and principled. I liked him more than Cheney and Bush.

He stepped down as Secretary of State, whereas Rice continues to defend the Bush administration. I think that that's going to be her problem.

Most politicians do get attacked for breaking from the party, but I think Colin Powell really is a good asset for the GOP. Or at least he was, until some attacked him.

But I agree with what you're saying, it is sad to watch. I have seen black liberals and conservatives attack each other here with pretty awful insults. I don't understand it. I don't understand why some white people engage in it like they do either.

At some point, they are just arguing that other party is the more racist party.

:shrug:






Sounds about right. Before Obama, Clinton was known affectionately as "the first black president" by blacks, and it was a designation Clinton truly seemed flattered and honored to have.

As a black republican (currently a very frustrated one), blacks affiliated with the GOP as seen as traitors. The exceptions are Colin Powell and JC Watts. I thinks it's an automatic assumption that if you're black and a republican you're trying to disassociate politically and possibly otherwise with other blacks, when that's not always the case. Once you start standing up for blacks within the GOP as did Powell and Watts when pertainant issues arose, you get your black person credentials back :lamo. Then, unfortunately white republicans label you a RINO and accuse you of "using te race card." Either way, you can't win so just be true to your convictions.
 
Often times it is needed to have an intellectual conversation without disrespectfully, inflaming people. If you use inflammatory language or talk like a partisan hack, then people focus on your language and words instead of the merit of your arguments.

But certain people on DP have no merit or arguments, and they are pretty much begging to be flamed.


I see PC as intellectual timidity. It allows people to abdicate responsibility to call a spade a spade.
 
It's hard to believe that people just give up their culture.

Maybe his parents started calling themselves American instead of Irish and Sicilian, but its hard to believe that he just threw away all their cultural ties. Its a huge part of one's identity. How does somebody just suddenly stop being Sicilian and start being American?

Its just impossible in what I have seen in my own parents.




The problem with your argument is that you're not asking for embracing. You're asking for assimilation. People can still maintain their cultural inheritance and still embrace it everyday. Which is what most people do. Giving up cultural inheritance for the sake of 'Murica (assimilation) is nonsense. Now, you can keep going on about your "debate" but there is no debate here. You want people to give up their cultural inheritance for the sake of an America which has never asked them to do so. Ever. The Irish weren't asked to give up their heritage. They haven't. The Asians haven't either. The only people you seem to have a bone with are blacks who care enough about their heritage to call themselves African-American.

Now, this is all aside from the fact that historically African-Americans can be considered second only to Native-Americans in terms of ties to this country. So what are you mad about? Self labeling? It's not like African-Americans are going around wearing dashikis and beating drums. So what is it about this self labeling that bothers you so much? Do you not get a news channel to keep you occupied with important matters?



Good for them. Everyone else doesn't have to give up their heritage simply because your "parents" decided they were no longer Sicilian & Irish. Actually, most people haven't given up on their cultural inheritance. Which is what I guess bothers you so much. Free country though. Deal with it. People label themselves based on the history of their people. My history isn't the same as a Native American's. I don't label myself a "Native-American". My history isn't the same as an Irish American's. So I don't label myself an Irish American. Don't really care about who does or doesn't either. :shrug:



Read first comment.



Embracing =/= assimilate. Your demand is for people to assimilate. Not embrace.



Read your last statement in the OP.
 
I have not always liked the way the Colin Powell has been treated, especially by Rush. And even if he was associated with the Bush administration, he seemed highly respectable and principled. I liked him more than Cheney and Bush.

Ask the women and children of My Lai what they think about Colin Powell. Oh, wait -- you can't. Most of them are dead.
 
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