View Poll Results: Is a white South African, American citizen...considered an African american?

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Thread: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

  1. #211
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Yes, they are born in Africa and thus are entitled to being called an African American.
    That's not why blacks in the US call themselves African-American.

    hen I went to Haiti the black people there didn't want to be called Africans and those that moved to the US did not want to be called "African Americans."
    Because Haiti has a different racial context. Being seen as an African in Haiti is not a good thing.

    I have friends who were born in Egypt that applied for African American scholarships. One actually got it but then had the funds removed when they realized he was of Arab decent even though he was born in Africa in Egypt.
    I wonder why... maybe because African-American isn't about an African who becomes an American?

    African American should not be used as a term to denote race or ethnicity.
    Says who? The white boy who doesn't know why blacks in the US refer to themselves as African American to begin with?

    Your post is riddled with so much general ignorance it's actually useless to try and school you on the subject. Way beyond repair.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    My family migrated from Europe, so I will try to explain.

    America and Europe are a lot different. Migrating within Europe is a lot different. A lot of European nations are in the EU and recognize movement of labor. I know many new businesses starting up in former USSR, are being started up by people from the West.

    Overall, a lot of people are happy with the economic build up. Right now, there is economic tension with Greece, but Europe is peaceful and Europe likes Europe. Nobody is going to start a war.


    America has an intense racial history, which people alive today remember.

    Then immigrants are coming from all over. And it really sucks if you come from a country America is at war with, or doesn't get along with.

    I know people who are ashamed to be immigrants. They are not proud of where they are from...

    They want to be American, and only be called American, but they get **** because of the political climate here.

    The political climate is divisive as others have said. Middle eastern and Latin immigrants are probably the most distrusted and liked right now, and they are the bull of current immigrants.

    I used to date a guy, he was Jewish, born in Israel. He had dark skin and an accent. The accent does sound middle eastern, and he considers Israel part of the middle east. He is a naturalized citizen now, and America is supposed to be pro Israel, but when he first came here, a couple of cops approached him on the beach, realized he didn't speak the best English and made some racist anti eastern comments that he understood.

    He said damn I wonder if they'd have shown me more respect if they knew I was I was from Israel.


    I said, why bother. They shouldn't do it anyway, and they are too ignorant to understand anything about Israel beyond politics.











    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    Curious that after all these years, you don't just think of yourselves as United Statesian.

    In Europe as a rule, it only seems to take one generation or even less for people to feel assimilated. For example, I mix with black people every day who don't say they're African-French or West Indian-French but simply French. Similarly when I lived in the UK, people of all colours and backgrounds were just British. My own background is a tapestry but having arrived in the UK relatively young and obtained the citizenship I quickly became British. Similarly I now have French citizenship, hence I'm French with no complexes.

    Of course I don't forget my roots. I could claim to be Italo-Slovene-Anglo-French. But that would be:
    a) pretentious, and
    b) unnecessary.

    When are you United Statesians going to get over your hang-ups?

  3. #213
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    That's not why blacks in the US call themselves African-American.



    Because Haiti has a different racial context. Being seen as an African in Haiti is not a good thing.



    I wonder why... maybe because African-American isn't about an African who becomes an American?



    Says who? The white boy who doesn't know why blacks in the US refer to themselves as African American to begin with?

    Your post is riddled with so much general ignorance it's actually useless to try and school you on the subject. Way beyond repair.
    Doesn't refute the point that "African American" shouldn't be exclusive to blacks and that any other race, from Africa, that calls themselves "African American" is wrong in doing so. People can be proud of their heritage or homeland and label themselves as such.

    My friends from Egypt had their family history in Africa. They were born in Egypt and their family history is traced to Egypt for as long as they can remember. They moved to the US from Africa, they have every right to use the title "African American" and should be allowed to make use of that terminology. A white person born and raised in Africa has Africa as their homeland. An Arab person born and raised in Africa has Africa as their homeland. It's wrong to deny that person the ability or to tell them it's wrong to call themselves "African Americans" because they aren't black.

    Also, my status as a predominantly white person with Native American heritage means nothing when it comes to the argument. My friends from Egypt weren't allowed to label themselves as African Americans despite being born in Africa and having their family heritage being there. Doesn't also change the fact that a white person, or any other person, born on the African continent has Africa as a homeland and should be allowed to properly denote themselves as an "African American." To have "African American" synonymous with "black" is improper and should be changed.
    Last edited by digsbe; 12-09-13 at 07:52 PM.
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Personally, I just think this is a game of semantics myself.

    I'll break it down for you....

    White South Africans fall into the racial category of white, caucasian.

    Their ethnicity... most likely Saxon or germanic, or both

    They are from... South Africa


    They traditionally call themselves.... Akrikaan


    And that is that. Anything else, semantic nonsense

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad_Captandum View Post
    I'm not trolling you -- I'm using it as an example of how your argument falls into a 'reductio ad absurdum' trap.

    You say that Afrikaners would not be considered African-American because they're not 'originally' from Africa -- they're just transplanted Dutchmen. I'm saying, how long do you need to stay in a place for you to be 'from' there? Surely the centuries the Afrikaners have been in Africa qualifies them as more African than the majority of Liberians, for example, as they're mostly transplanted slaves from the Americas?

    The point of my example is, the Afrikaners ARE 'from' Africa, because they've been there so long. If you negate their claim based on the fact that half a millennium ago their ancestors were from the Netherlands, I can equally negate your claim that the Dutch are European -- they're just transplanted Africans.

    The overall point is, making it about where your ancestors are 'from' is indeed racist, because you're essentially saying that your only criteria for determining where someone is 'from' is based on the colour of their skin.

    If that were not true, you would obviously accept the Afrikaners as Africans, not Europeans.

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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    I know people who are ashamed to be immigrants.
    It is sux to be an immigrant. I envy people who were born in this beautiful and God blessed country.

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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Doesn't refute the point that "African American" shouldn't be exclusive to blacks and that any other race, from Africa, that calls themselves "African American" is wrong in doing so.
    Actually it does because neither Africans, nor Haitians, nor Egyptians call themselves African-American to begin with. Your imaginary friend piggy backing an African-American scholarship doesn't change the fact he isn't African-American anymore than the Amish are Dutch citizens. Your initial misstep starts at the part where you think "African-American" is synonymous with "black". However, a black man can be an African, and still not be an African American. He can also be African-American without being an African.

    Your juvenile gotcha game by citing your general ignorance of Haiti's racial context is absolutely laughable though. Whereas African-Americans have come to embrace their cultural roots, Haiti is practically in the 19th century when it comes to what it means to be a person of African Ancestry. The most the black community in the Caribbean has managed to embrace is a made for tourists Afro-Caribbean game of dress-up. Bet you didn't know that though. Must have been on one of those missionary missions where you get to claim you understand the people in that country without actually having to live next to them.

    As far as Egyptians go, being born in Africa and moving to America doesn't make you an African-American. Why? Again, we go back to my first point. African-American is a reference to a specific type of African ancestry and not the black race. The same way the census has sought to differentiate between white hispanics, black hispanics and asian hispanics, African-American differentiates between blacks born in the US to other blacks born in the US, and blacks who have no historical ties to the US of any sort. Maybe your friend would have better luck applying for an Arab-American or an Egyptian-American scholarship. Here are some:

    http://www.aaiusa.org/pages/scholarships/

    http://www.adc.org/education/arab-am...-scholarships/

    http://www.arabamerica.com/news.php?id=3940

    Here are the Egyptian-American scholarships:

    http://www.scholars4dev.com/tag/scho...for-egyptians/

    http://www1.aucegypt.edu/catalog02/g...olar-fell.html

    Tell him I send him my best wishes in getting Egyptian-American/Arab-American scholarships that people realized weren't tailored for African-Americans and appropriately labeled them.

    Seriously, you're way out of your league here. Your perspective (if a 3rd rate understanding of race can be called that) is based on your glossing of racial context and completely ethnocentric view of black history.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-09-13 at 08:08 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Its a free country. Its legal to have German American Clubs and culture festivals. It was not legal to have such clubs in the USSR, because it offended the Communist Party. Every club had to be pro communist or neutral, to not offend the commies.

    And the commies knew they could force people celebrating pre communist culture in clubs to change the names of those clubs, but they couldn't force them to stop actually doing anything. So the German Clubs changed their offical name and posed as a bowling club. And the commies sent spies into bowling clubs, sewing clubs, etc., and people we sent to Siberia.



    So yeah, you can play semantics all you want, and demand people stop saying xyz, but it really amounts to nothing. They will still do it under your nose.

    America stands for individual freedom and liberty, not conformity.





    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    To those that are made uncomfortable by them, they certainly are. Heck even when a women chooses to use a hyphenated married name she's pissing someone off.

    Not sure where you're going with the songs and team names.

  8. #218
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    How can you argue that something is this, and that you don't care?

    That makes no sense.

    If it doesn't bother you, how can you accurately judge it as divisive?


    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I've said I don't care what someone else calls themselves. And it's true, I don't care about that. I just wonder why someone WANTS to make sure everyone knows they're not a regular American like everyone else, but some sort of "special" American, instead. I think it's very divisive but I don't really care that someone wants to be divisive. That's their business. I just wonder why it's so important to them to maintain a line of differentiation between "us" and "them".

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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Its a free country. Its legal to have German American Clubs and culture festivals. It was not legal to have such clubs in the USSR, because it offended the Communist Party. Every club had to be pro communist or neutral, to not offend the commies.

    And the commies knew they could force people celebrating pre communist culture in clubs to change the names of those clubs, but they couldn't force them to stop actually doing anything. So the German Clubs changed their offical name and posed as a bowling club. And the commies sent spies into bowling clubs, sewing clubs, etc., and people we sent to Siberia.

    So yeah, you can play semantics all you want, and demand people stop saying xyz, but it really amounts to nothing. They will still do it under your nose.

    America stands for individual freedom and liberty, not conformity.
    I love that all the self determination, social independence conservatives get on the bandwagon about everyone referring to themselves by the same cohesive label. Neo-nationalist bull****. Same people who have no problem with businesses discriminating against gays, blacks, muslims etc have a problem with people labeling themselves as such because it hurts their patriotic feelings. Lolz.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-09-13 at 08:16 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Haiti is not part of Africa. I wouldn't jump to call them African myself.

    African American is most likely just an American cultural thing. There is a reason for it.


    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Yes, they are born in Africa and thus are entitled to being called an African American.

    It's silly that we equate "African American" with "black" and also assume that all black people are of African heritage. When I went to Haiti the black people there didn't want to be called Africans and those that moved to the US did not want to be called "African Americans." Their identiy was Haitian and we were told referring to people in Haiti as Africans or being of African decent is considered rude and improper as well as referring to Haitian immigrants as African Americans if they move to the US. I have friends who were born in Egypt that applied for African American scholarships. One actually got it but then had the funds removed when they realized he was of Arab decent even though he was born in Africa in Egypt.

    African American should not be used as a term to denote race or ethnicity. I don't think people would lump people from India, China, eastern Russia, or Malaysia as "Asian Americans" and no one refers to whites as "European Americans." African American may be a more prefered term by some, but it's improper to assume all blacks are African Americans and to say that people born in Africa that immigrated here are not African Americans.

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