View Poll Results: Is a white South African, American citizen...considered an African american?

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  • No.

    26 38.24%
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  • Ummm... Mind. Blown.

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Thread: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

  1. #191
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    It's an honest question that you ask brother, and I'll answer as honestly as I can. Why is it important to me to call myself an African-American? The complete answer would takes pages, the short answer is because I grew up in the sixties and I've lived during a most exciting period of life this country. I've lived and felt all the history of what people of African descent could not do. I not only watched it, I internalized it. History must ask why did it take 264 years for black Americans to be granted basic human rights in this country? Is that a racist question to ask .. or is it an uncomfortable question based on a statement of fact?

    Without boring you with the long story :0) Suffice it to say that I remember a time when 'black' was a bad word .. even in the black community. Declaring myself African-American feels like triumph to me. Triumph over all that we weren't supposed to be. Survival through all that has been heaped upon African people from the moment we arrived at these shores.

    I love this country, love its people, and want to see a better future for us all. I have zero problems with white people or any people. But I understand the fight is not over.

    The difference is perspectives.
    And, I suppose with "the fight", it's not over till you and your brothers and sisters say it's over. So y'all let the white folks know when you're through fighting and maybe everyone can move forward together. Meanwhile, I've got to get by Cuban-American arse back down to the workshop to get some more production in today.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  2. #192
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Curious that after all these years, you don't just think of yourselves as United Statesian.

    In Europe as a rule, it only seems to take one generation or even less for people to feel assimilated. For example, I mix with black people every day who don't say they're African-French or West Indian-French but simply French. Similarly when I lived in the UK, people of all colours and backgrounds were just British. My own background is a tapestry but having arrived in the UK relatively young and obtained the citizenship I quickly became British. Similarly I now have French citizenship, hence I'm French with no complexes.

    Of course I don't forget my roots. I could claim to be Italo-Slovene-Anglo-French. But that would be:
    a) pretentious, and
    b) unnecessary.

    When are you United Statesians going to get over your hang-ups?
    "C'est le dernier qui a parlé qui a raison"
    Amina.

  3. #193
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad_Captandum View Post
    Well, they are, if you go back far enough.
    Duh. Do you think anyone does not know that?

    Using such to negate the existence of nations is stupid nihilism. Common elementary trolling. BS.

  4. #194
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Duh. Do you think anyone does not know that?

    Using such to negate the existence of nations is stupid nihilism. Common elementary trolling. BS.
    I'm not trolling you -- I'm using it as an example of how your argument falls into a 'reductio ad absurdum' trap.

    You say that Afrikaners would not be considered African-American because they're not 'originally' from Africa -- they're just transplanted Dutchmen. I'm saying, how long do you need to stay in a place for you to be 'from' there? Surely the centuries the Afrikaners have been in Africa qualifies them as more African than the majority of Liberians, for example, as they're mostly transplanted slaves from the Americas?

    The point of my example is, the Afrikaners ARE 'from' Africa, because they've been there so long. If you negate their claim based on the fact that half a millennium ago their ancestors were from the Netherlands, I can equally negate your claim that the Dutch are European -- they're just transplanted Africans.

    The overall point is, making it about where your ancestors are 'from' is indeed racist, because you're essentially saying that your only criteria for determining where someone is 'from' is based on the colour of their skin.

    If that were not true, you would obviously accept the Afrikaners as Africans, not Europeans.

  5. #195
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Did I mention hyphenated nouns are divisive?
    German American Clubs and Greek festivals are not divisive.

    Do you think the song god bless Texas is divisive, because its not saying God bless America?

    Maybe instead of the Chicago Bears, Cincinnati Bengals, and New York Giants, etc. we should we have American Bears, American Giants, etc. unless you find calling American, American something or other, then we will just call them The Bears, The Giants, etc.

  6. #196
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    German American Clubs and Greek festivals are not divisive.

    Do you think the song god bless Texas is divisive, because its not saying God bless America?

    Maybe instead of the Chicago Bears, Cincinnati Bengals, and New York Giants, etc. we should we have American Bears, American Giants, etc. unless you find calling American, American something or other, then we will just call them The Bears, The Giants, etc.
    To those that are made uncomfortable by them, they certainly are. Heck even when a women chooses to use a hyphenated married name she's pissing someone off.

    Not sure where you're going with the songs and team names.

  7. #197
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    If he wants to be called African American, why does it bother you?

    I know somebody from Korea. She wants to be called Korean, not Asian, not Oriental, and she will get really pissed of you call her Chinese or Japanese. So I call her Korean out of personal respect for her.

    If she told me call her Asian, I happily would call her Asian.

    For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many of you insist people wanting to be called xyz are divisive.

    To refuse to call her Korean and expect her to confirm to my beliefs
    as to what she should be called, that is actually divisive.

    Some people want to be called Hispanic, some want to be called Latino, etc. There is a huge difference between Mexico and Columbia, Japan and Korea, and when you cannot see the obvious differences and talk to the people from those places as if they are all the same, be ready to piss some people off and look extremely ignorant in the process.


    And there nothing wrong with saying you're a woman soldier either. There is nothing wrong with saying you're a mother and a daughter versus father and son.

    I don't believe for a second that you don't identify as a man or a male, and that you fail to reason that it is and isn't acceptable for you to do certain things because of your gender.












    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Who said anything about truth being an adversary of social harmony? Do you really think it would be deceptive NOT to use hyphenated-American labels? Do you need to stick an "African-Hypehen" in front of your "American" label in order for me to not confuse you with "Euro-Americans"?

    What benefit do we get from that except proper maintenance of the "us vs. them" mentality such labels help ensure? Whether your avatar actually reflects your status in active duty or not, assuming you are on active duty, do you think it's important that you describe yourself as a "female soldier" instead of just a soldier? It's the truth, isn't it? If you were a doctor, would you insist on being called a "female doctor"? Or an "African American Doctor"? It's the truth, so why not? As long as it's the truth, it can't be adversarial to social harmony, right?

    Think about it.

  8. #198
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    If he wants to be called African American, why does it bother you?

    I know somebody from Korea. She wants to be called Korean, not Asian, not Oriental, and she will get really pissed of you call her Chinese or Japanese. So I call her Korean out of personal respect for her.

    If she told me call her Asian, I happily would call her Asian.

    For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many of you insist people wanting to be called xyz are divisive.

    To refuse to call her Korean and expect her to confirm to my beliefs
    as to what she should be called, that is actually divisive.

    Some people want to be called Hispanic, some want to be called Latino, etc. There is a huge difference between Mexico and Columbia, Japan and Korea, and when you cannot see the obvious differences and talk to the people from those places as if they are all the same, be ready to piss some people off and look extremely ignorant in the process.


    And there nothing wrong with saying you're a woman soldier either. There is nothing wrong with saying you're a mother and a daughter versus father and son.

    I don't believe for a second that you don't identify as a man or a male, and that you fail to reason that it is and isn't acceptable for you to do certain things because of your gender.
    I've said I don't care what someone else calls themselves. And it's true, I don't care about that. I just wonder why someone WANTS to make sure everyone knows they're not a regular American like everyone else, but some sort of "special" American, instead. I think it's very divisive but I don't really care that someone wants to be divisive. That's their business. I just wonder why it's so important to them to maintain a line of differentiation between "us" and "them".
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  9. #199
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Technically, I think it is flawed to put it that way. We have mapped the human genome and traced many modern peoples steps out of Africa.

    You can now get your blood tested for those genomes, but.there are also biological differences in... errm... Asians, Europeans, and Africans that is found in the blood. Africans are the only people to not come in contact with earlier species like Neanderthals, and the rest if us interbred and intermixed with forerunners to homo sapiens.

    That being said, in America its not unlikely that a lot of... ermm... white people have black in them, and black people have white in them. I am talking about the genomes in the blood, meaning, ya all possibly have more recent ancestors of the other race.

    That is a lot closer to each other than trekking out of Africa.


    and given that, I still don't get why you care what you fellow citizens call themselves.

    BlackasCoal says he is proud of his African heritage, and that makes sense to me, but I don't feel its my cultural heritage, and I believe I came out of Africa too. But I don't associate myself with Africa on a personal level. I associate my cultural heritage with Eastern Europe.






    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    As I've already said just about everyone on this planet has African ancestors if you look back far enough.




    "The only race on this planet is the human race."

  10. #200
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    I met Dave Chappell's mom, and that was pretty much her attitude too. She said, we are all Africans.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    :0) TRUTH be told .. everybody on this board and who has ever lived as a modern human is of African descent.

    Truth be told, a sample of your mitochondria would reveal what region of Africa YOU come from. :0)

    You could call yourself an African-American and have a point. :0)

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