View Poll Results: Is a white South African, American citizen...considered an African american?

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Thread: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

  1. #181
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Spain is also in Africa and in the Atlantic Ocean (The Canary Islands.).
    That's rather debatable. Most people would agree that Spaniards come from mainland Spain, and Ceuta, the Balearics, the Canaries, Melilla, etc., are a bit more like Spanish colonies.

    Anyway, it doesn't change the fact that South Americans are (at least in most part) of European descent. You don't call Italian-Americans brown, but you do call Mexican-Americans (and thus by extent Spanish-Americans) brown. Curious.

    I wonder, would an Argentine-American be brown or white?

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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad_Captandum View Post
    That's rather debatable. Most people would agree that Spaniards come from mainland Spain, and Ceuta, the Balearics, the Canaries, Melilla, etc., are a bit more like Spanish colonies.

    Anyway,
    it doesn't change the fact that South Americans are (at least in most part) of European descent. You don't call Italian-Americans brown, but you do call Mexican-Americans (and thus by extent Spanish-Americans) brown. Curious.

    I wonder, would an Argentine-American be brown or white?



    That would depend on that Argentine-American's ancestors.

    Hispanic -Americans can be any race.

  3. #183
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad_Captandum View Post
    That's rather debatable. Most people would agree that Spaniards come from mainland Spain, and Ceuta, the Balearics, the Canaries, Melilla, etc., are a bit more like Spanish colonies.

    Anyway, it doesn't change the fact that South Americans are (at least in most part) of European descent. You don't call Italian-Americans brown, but you do call Mexican-Americans (and thus by extent Spanish-Americans) brown. Curious.

    I wonder, would an Argentine-American be brown or white?
    Me thinks there is way too much emphasis put on race and color and not on the individuals which are all of the Human Race. But here in the states, our politics have a divide and conquer strategy when it comes to search for votes. Winning political strategy seems to force the divisions by race, religion, income, education, gender etc. and the more the politicians can divided and sub-divide in their search for votes, the easier it is to get those votes from a division of people which they divided all us into.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  4. #184
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    Why would diversity be a problem?

    Does the rejection of diversity make us 'one people' .. or does it just make us pretend to be blind?
    Diversity is required to maintain the whole. To build a house, you need a variety of materials. If all you had was lumber made from trees, you could build a house, but it wouldn't stand for long. You also need a concrete, brick or stone foundation. And the interior would be difficult to live in if there wasn't any furniture, and it would be a bland place if it wasn't for paint or wall paper or pictures on the wall.

    Like the house, our society needs diversity or it wouldn't stand for long, and it would be bland and uninteresting. It would also be stagnant in its ability to grow and advance.

    But also like the house, our society shouldn't be pulling one part against the other(s). If the walls of the house were always pushing away from the roof or the floors, then the house would crumble in upon itself. All of the parts of the house must work together to maintain the structural integrity and also to have an interesting and pleasing environment in which to live.

    In our society, we should work as a whole, not as individual parts without regard to how our actions effect the whole. We call a house a house. We should call ourselves Americans. In our houses, we decorate and paint our walls, similarly to how we can recognize the value and contribution to the whole of certain factions of our society. We value our diversity, and should continue to do so. But not the exclusion of a part or parts of that society.

    We shouldn't expect our walls in our house to stand if they were not securely connected with nails, screws and/or bolts to the foundation and roof.

    In our society in the US, the nails, screws and bolts that bind us are our citizenship in this country. That citizenship in this society is recognized and secured by what we call ourselves. Calling ourselves something that separates us from other parts of society, is the same as pulling the nails, screws and bolts from the walls that bind them to the foundation and roof.

    If those that reject forced segregation, continue to self segregate, they are the cause to the damage done by their actions to themselves and to the society at large.

    We should recognize our diversity, and celebrate it. However, we should not do anything that separates or segregates any part of the society from the whole, especially if done in an attempt to gain solidarity of a singular group which only breads a separatist environment within that group and creates a gap between that group and the rest of society.
    Last edited by Beaudreaux; 12-09-13 at 02:10 PM.

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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Their ancestors are not African.


    History of South Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    They would be South African Americans, or just "mutts" like the rest of us.
    Well, they are, if you go back far enough.

    I think that's the point -- where does the regression stop? Surely someone whose ancestors have lived in Africa for centuries is African, regardless of skin colour?

    If not, how far back do we go?

    Because if we regress far enough, all of us are from Africa. Homo sapiens started there on the savanna, and we are all, by extent, descendants of Africans. So where do we draw the line?

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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    She looks mighty Nordic to me.
    She looks mighty nice to me.

    Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....-ct-jpg

    I wish we can all just be Americans. I don't refer to myself as a European-American because my roots go back to Europe (although I was born in California). And that reminds me, in Holland a black Dutch person is not referred to an a African-Dutch. They are just Dutch and they happen to be black and they don't mind being called black (at least the ones I have talked to).

  7. #187
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Diversity is required to maintain the whole. To build a house, you need a variety of materials. If all you had was lumber made from trees, you could build a house, but it wouldn't stand for long. You also need a concrete, brick or stone foundation. And the interior would be difficult to live in if there wasn't any furniture, and it would be a bland place if it wasn't for paint or wall paper or pictures on the wall.

    Like the house, our society needs diversity or it wouldn't stand for long, and it would be a bland and uninteresting. It would also be stagnant in its ability to grow and advance.

    But also like the house, our society shouldn't be pulling one part against the other(s). If the walls of the house were always pushing away from the roof or the floors, then the house would crumble in upon itself. All of the parts of the house must work together to maintain the structural integrity and also to have an interesting and pleasing environment in which to live.

    In our society, we should work as a whole, not as individual parts without regard to how our actions effect the whole. We call a house a house. We should call ourselves Americans. In our houses, we decorate and paint our walls, similarly to how we can recognize the value and contribution to the whole of certain factions of our society. We value our diversity, and should continue to do so. But not the exclusion of a part or parts of that society.

    We shouldn't expect our walls in hour house to stand if they were not securely connected with nails, screws and/or bolts to the foundation and roof.

    In our society in the US, the nails, screws and bolts that bind us are our citizenship in this country. That citizenship in this society is recognized and secured by what we call ourselves. Calling ourselves something that separates us from other parts of society, is the same as pulling the nails, screws and bolts from the walls that bind them to the foundation and roof.

    If those that reject forced segregation, continue to self segregate, they are the cause to the damage done by their actions to themselves and to the society at large.

    We should recognize our diversity, and celebrate it. However, we should not do anything that separates or segregates any part of the society from the whole, especially if done in an attempt to gain solidarity of a singular group which only breads a separatist environment within that group and creates a gap between that group and the rest of society.
    That was very well said my friend. I agree with much of it, but where I disagree is important to me.

    Speaking from my perspective, it is not African-Americans that separate us from American society. That separation has been forced upon us, and in spite of the many advances in this society that I have witnessed in my life, that separation still exists.

    Case in point, the war on drugs, which is racist in its application to the core. I'm sure you're aware that I can easily cite many studies that demonstrate the truth of the racist application of law in the Just-Us system in this country towards a people who have been here for more than 400 years. YET, those laws still exist .. AND, when the criminally insane Just-Us system attacks AMERICAN black people .. guess who has to fight those battle almost alone? African-Americans.

    With all due respect, I've attended more than a few rallies against the terrorist tactics against black people, and they were almost all black people.

    I attended many antiwar rallies during the Bush years and was often asked why more blacks didn't attend. My answer was always, because you didn't show up at theirs.

    What I suggest to you brother is that we as a nation must grow intellectually to understand that diversity is an asset. We come together as a nation, as a people, when it is necessary. But we can still maintain our own identities, beliefs, and cultures, while still maintaining a belief in ourselves as a nation.

    I don't seek the illusion of comradeship, I seek its truth.

  8. #188
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Hey... this Euro-American doesn't care what you call yourself. If you think it's important for people to know you're of African descent and worry they might not be able to figure it out without you adding "African-hyphen" to the "American" label, it's all good. You wouldn't want to be mistaken for someone of Swedish descent. That would be a very bad thing. The more we can focus on how different we are, the better it is for everyone.
    :0) I like you brother .. like talking to you .. but you think about YOU way too much. Whatever I call myself has absolutely nothing to do with you or anybody else. YOU, whomever you may be, don't (eb) count.

    I'm enjoying being who I am.

  9. #189
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    :0) I like you brother .. like talking to you .. but you think about YOU way too much. Whatever I call myself has absolutely nothing to do with you or anybody else. YOU, whomever you may be, don't (eb) count.

    I'm enjoying being who I am.
    When I'm thinking about why it's so important to YOU to call YOURSELF an African-American, I'm not thinking about me. I'm thinking about you. I'm thinking about what it is going on in that head of yours that makes it so important that you label yourself as African American. I'm wondering what this country would be like if everyone had the same issues going on. Would we have....

    Cuban-Americans
    English-Americans
    Homosexual-Americans
    Female-Americans
    Vietnamese-Americans
    Samoan-Americans

    etc. etc. etc.

    Why what the hell.... if you ain't got a hyphen, you ain't nobody, LOL. We have to make sure everyone in every other group knows that they aren't the same as we are and by applying these labels, not only do we make sure they know it, but that they know it's damned important to us that they know it. And people wonder how we end up with racist cliques. Of course, everyone has a right to be as racist as they want. What goes on in peoples' own heads is their own business. Doesn't make it something to aspire to but it's certainly everyone's right if that's how they want to think and be.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  10. #190
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    Re: Question about race: Is a white south african, who immigrated to america....

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    When I'm thinking about why it's so important to YOU to call YOURSELF an African-American, I'm not thinking about me. I'm thinking about you. I'm thinking about what it is going on in that head of yours that makes it so important that you label yourself as African American. I'm wondering what this country would be like if everyone had the same issues going on. Would we have....

    Cuban-Americans
    English-Americans
    Homosexual-Americans
    Female-Americans
    Vietnamese-Americans
    Samoan-Americans

    etc. etc. etc.

    Why what the hell.... if you ain't got a hyphen, you ain't nobody, LOL. We have to make sure everyone in every other group knows that they aren't the same as we are and by applying these labels, not only do we make sure they know it, but that they know it's damned important to us that they know it. And people wonder how we end up with racist cliques. Of course, everyone has a right to be as racist as they want. What goes on in peoples' own heads is their own business. Doesn't make it something to aspire to but it's certainly everyone's right if that's how they want to think and be.
    It's an honest question that you ask brother, and I'll answer as honestly as I can. Why is it important to me to call myself an African-American? The complete answer would takes pages, the short answer is because I grew up in the sixties and I've lived during a most exciting period of life this country. I've lived and felt all the history of what people of African descent could not do. I not only watched it, I internalized it. History must ask why did it take 264 years for black Americans to be granted basic human rights in this country? Is that a racist question to ask .. or is it an uncomfortable question based on a statement of fact?

    Without boring you with the long story :0) Suffice it to say that I remember a time when 'black' was a bad word .. even in the black community. Declaring myself African-American feels like triumph to me. Triumph over all that we weren't supposed to be. Survival through all that has been heaped upon African people from the moment we arrived at these shores.

    I love this country, love its people, and want to see a better future for us all. I have zero problems with white people or any people. But I understand the fight is not over.

    The difference is perspectives.

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