View Poll Results: Should voting be anonymous?

Voters
33. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, it's set up the way it currently is for good reason

    31 93.94%
  • No, people should be held accountable for their decisions

    2 6.06%
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345
Results 41 to 47 of 47

Thread: Should Voting be Confidential?

  1. #41
    Sage
    AliHajiSheik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,390

    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    The bit about congress and spending was.


    Right. My point is that usually in life when you make a decision that affects other people, it's not generally seen as unreasonable if they ask you for an articulable reason for your actions. In fact under most circumstances, you'd be expected to explain yourself. If you're doing something that could negatively impact other people and you can't/won't even explain your motive, one has to wonder whether you should really be allowed to do it in the first place.
    Yes, Congress was more specific to the US but it could be applied to any country that has a representative legislature.

    No vote of a citizen has a direct negative impact on anyone, your logic is taken by extension to apply to how they voted for their representatives who do the actual voting on specific issues. If I voted for a specific congressperson, or MP or whatever office, then in no way should I have to explain my vote to anyone.

    As for your generic "one" who wonders why I or anyone else has the vote, you keep dancing around the subject of what are YOU going to do about it if someone votes in a way you disagree with? You seem to be in some kind of quest to assign credit or blame for how people voted in an election--I think the term is busybody.

  2. #42
    Global Moderator
    Moderator
    Helix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    37,136

    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    The bit I'm still confused about is why you'd think that laws can prevent the government from finding out who you voted for, but that those same laws can't prevent the government from intimidating you if they do know. If you're so willing to believe that they'd break that second law, why not the first as well? And do you at least see any sort of reasoning behind the notion that full transparency can actually help prevent intimidation and discrimination?
    Could the government theoretically break voter confidentiality? Sure. Is that a reason to revoke voter privacy? No. It's actually working pretty well. For example, the employers who warned employees about voting for the candidate they didn't like in 2012 were still unable to punish individual workers who didn't vote the company line. I consider this to be the real benifit.

  3. #43
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The Republic of Texas.
    Last Seen
    11-15-17 @ 11:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,647

    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    One of the reasons we are given to vote is that it's a personal responsibility that you have to yourself and to those around you. My position is that the system is set up to absolve voters of any responsibility for their vote from the moment they cast it, by giving voters total anonymity for their choices, thereby absolving them of all responsibility for decisions made by the person they voted for. That being the case, the idea that voting is some sort of a responsibility that people have seems like a complete fallacy.

    When you vote in a national election, you are casting a vote to influence the lives of millions upon millions of other people. If I vote for a man who will send your son to fight in a foreign country that poses no threat to our nation and your son ends up dying as a result, do you not think you should have some right to at least know who I am? If I vote for a man who decides to fix a current financial crisis by committing your unborn children to a lifetime of debt, shouldn't those unborn children one day have the right to at least know the names of the millions of people who voted for these debts to be placed on them before they were even born?
    No. We should build lists of all leftist voters with addresses and personal info. After all, they are much more of a threat to the nation than a single gun owner.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  4. #44
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,075

    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    One of the reasons we are given to vote is that it's a personal responsibility that you have to yourself and to those around you. My position is that the system is set up to absolve voters of any responsibility for their vote from the moment they cast it, by giving voters total anonymity for their choices, thereby absolving them of all responsibility for decisions made by the person they voted for. That being the case, the idea that voting is some sort of a responsibility that people have seems like a complete fallacy.

    When you vote in a national election, you are casting a vote to influence the lives of millions upon millions of other people. If I vote for a man who will send your son to fight in a foreign country that poses no threat to our nation and your son ends up dying as a result, do you not think you should have some right to at least know who I am? If I vote for a man who decides to fix a current financial crisis by committing your unborn children to a lifetime of debt, shouldn't those unborn children one day have the right to at least know the names of the millions of people who voted for these debts to be placed on them before they were even born?
    Voting should stay anonymous. Because its none of yours or anyone elses business who I vote for. People shouldn't have to fear that some politically correct **** for brains retards, religious zealots, extreme liberals,extreme conservatives,employers, co-workers or scum in the media hassling them for how they voted.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  5. #45
    Professor
    Shadow Serious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Last Seen
    07-18-14 @ 07:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,460

    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    If they are willing to take vengeance upon those who vote against them, then they are also willing to find out who those people are. They certainly have the technical capability to do so.

    I don't have a solid opinion one way or the other on whether the US government (I'm not American or in America btw) keeps tabs on who votes for who, but it seems like you're saying that they would be willing break laws by lashing out at those who vote against them, but not willing break privacy laws to find out who voted against them in the first place. I think that is illogical. Either both are independently safe, or both are already being broken.
    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    I'm inclined to agree with this, but it's evidently not for lack of technical capability, which means it's purely out of respect for law. And that begs the question; if they can be trusted not to check who we voted for, why can't they be trusted not to punish those who vote against them if they do know? And what about the millions of people who already openly declare their allegiance to one party or another? Are they being punished when their party loses an election? If not, what makes you think it would suddenly change?
    The voting in my State of Oklahoma doesn't have a mechanism to track who voted when. We sign the register which doesn't have any time stamp and then vote so it cannot be tracked down. Also since I am a registered as Independant it makes it less likely to guess who I would vote for.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  6. #46
    Professor
    Shadow Serious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Last Seen
    07-18-14 @ 07:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,460

    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    Not the case. People would be massively more inclined to vote based on who their boss was going to vote for, who their familly and neighbors supported, who their partner liked and so on. You would see an increase in polarisation of 'red vs blue' within communities. In some senses (sorry, Godwin!), there would be similar effects to forcing Jews to wear the Star of David, especially when there are agitators on both sides screaming "All republicans are racist homophobes"/"All democrats are gun-stealing baby-killers!".

    People should not be held accountable to their leaders actions because many leaders take actions against the wishes of their supporters. Examples: government shutdown, the Iraq war, keeping Guantanemo open, and so on. The leaders are then often punished by their supporters - the supporters themselves don't need to be punished as well.


    If you can find a political system where all politicians are honest and keep their word, and furthermore are diverse enough that there is a politician availiable for each and every different kind of voter to be able to support wholeheartedly, with no policy disagreements whatsoever, and also a populace who are all educated enough to understand the political system and to have a rational debate on the pros and cons of the unforseen consequences of every slight shift in policy that their government might entail, without resorting to partisan tactics, then your idea might have half a hope.


    TL;dr - no, because of partisans.

    Edit: your mistake is that you assume that the government is the author of every politacal-based intimidation that has ever existed. Do you really want Joe Psycho-killer down the road to learn that you voted for a government which is responsible for enacting a healthcare law that Joe's radio has been telling him, every minute of every day, will lead to the inevitable breakdown of American society and probably a whole bunch of extra abortions to boot? Or Nancy-the-angry-hippy to learn that the candidate who has been forced by his Tea Party base to vote against gay rights is the one who you gave your vote to?
    Some of our European forum-mates forget that in the USA we only have two(2) national political parties and we have to choose between the lesser of two evils especially in States like mine where it is nearly impossible to have a third party and keep it after the election. We cannot be held "responsible" for the decisions of a Party or its members which we grudgingly support. After all affiliates are not necessarily members of the Party. We would have to have at least 6 Parties in my view to cover most of the public and that will not happen soon.

    With respect to a well educated public in our system of government I do not believe that it has the support of our various levels of government as a whole.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  7. #47
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,584

    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    The secret ballot enables free and fair elections. Imagine if, for example, a union got hold of how people voted, and then pressured workplaces to fire people who voted for the party they didn't support. You think politics is corrupt now?
    That's why I oppose card check.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •