View Poll Results: Should voting be anonymous?

Voters
33. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, it's set up the way it currently is for good reason

    31 93.94%
  • No, people should be held accountable for their decisions

    2 6.06%
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Thread: Should Voting be Confidential?

  1. #11
    Educator HumanBeing's Avatar
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    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by SayMyName View Post
    Voting should be confidential. Too many dangerous people out there who easily resort to violence when they know who to target for exercising their right to vote in a democratic society. I still remember the time growing up where you didn't talk about your vote or who you supported. It was a private matter, and you took pride in your participating in the process.
    But as I said, plenty of people openly talk about who they vote for, and as far as I'm aware it's very rare for people in your country to assault each other simply for supporting a different political party. Why would this change that? I would take no pride in annonymously dictating the lives of others, I think its shameful, but I do fully understand that I'm in a very small minority with my beliefs on that subject.

    We tried public voting. It lead to some rather horrible abuses.

    History man, history ..
    Your history, not mine, and I dispute that public voting in itself was to blame for the abuses which I assume you're referring to.

    The secret ballot enables free and fair elections. Imagine if, for example, a union got hold of how people voted, and then pressured workplaces to fire people who voted for the party they didn't support. You think politics is corrupt now?
    Well I live in Cambodia, so yeah, I think politics here are corrupt. As for the US, yes though obviously less so. My point remains: Plenty of people are already open about who they vote for, and I don't see unions targeting them. If anything, making the whole thing more transparent would help prevent the kind of abuse you're talking about. It would make it much easier to see when certain political groups are being discriminated against.
    If you hate capitalism so much, then just write everything in lower case. Problem solved.

  2. #12
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    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    But as I said, plenty of people openly talk about who they vote for, and as far as I'm aware it's very rare for people in your country to assault each other simply for supporting a different political party. Why would this change that? I would take no pride in annonymously dictating the lives of others, I think its shameful, but I do fully understand that I'm in a very small minority with my beliefs on that subject.


    Your history, not mine, and I dispute that public voting in itself was to blame for the abuses which I assume you're referring to.


    Well I live in Cambodia, so yeah, I think politics here are corrupt. As for the US, yes though obviously less so. My point remains: Plenty of people are already open about who they vote for, and I don't see unions targeting them. If anything, making the whole thing more transparent would help prevent the kind of abuse you're talking about. It would make it much easier to see when certain political groups are being discriminated against.
    I was raised in West Virginia coal country. If you were seen as not supporting the Union, and your vote went otherwise than being supportive, your life and that of your family became a living hell. I grew up with uncles carrying clubs in their trucks to ward off attacks that could come at any time along the backroads there.

    The confidential ballot ensures liberty when freedom seems allusive, and guarantees it where it seems imaginatively secure.

  3. #13
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    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by SayMyName View Post
    I was raised in West Virginia coal country. If you were seen as not supporting the Union, and your vote went otherwise than being supportive, your life and that of your family became a living hell. I grew up with uncles carrying clubs in their trucks to ward off attacks that could come at any time along the backroads there.
    I don't think I understand your point. Mine is that if it was public knowledge who the union voted for, and who all their members voted for, and who all the coal miners voted for, it would be far easier to see that people were being discriminated against, to publicize it, and to put a stop to it. The type of political discrimination you're talking about is partially a result of the fact that the ballots are confidential.

    The confidential ballot ensures liberty when freedom seems allusive, and guarantees it where it seems imaginatively secure.
    As eloquent as that may be, it simply isn't true. I don't think you really believe that secret ballots alone can guarantee freedom.
    If you hate capitalism so much, then just write everything in lower case. Problem solved.

  4. #14
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    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    If they are willing to take vengeance upon those who vote against them, then they are also willing to find out who those people are. They certainly have the technical capability to do so.

    I don't have a solid opinion one way or the other on whether the US government (I'm not American or in America btw) keeps tabs on who votes for who, but it seems like you're saying that they would be willing break laws by lashing out at those who vote against them, but not willing break privacy laws to find out who voted against them in the first place. I think that is illogical. Either both are independently safe, or both are already being broken.
    If something is not forbidden you cannot blame anyone from doing it. But if you look at game theorie and voting systems literature you might find some interesting articles. I thing I would Google scientific articles.

  5. #15
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    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    If something is not forbidden you cannot blame anyone from doing it. But if you look at game theorie and voting systems literature you might find some interesting articles. I thing I would Google scientific articles.
    I've spent many years researching voting systems, as I personally believe they are almost all horrifically unjust and unethical, but that's not what the thread is about. It's the specific issue of whether people should have a right to know who their fellow human beings voted for. I wasn't expecting much support for my notion that ballots should be public, I'm just interested in reading people's opinions on the subject and the reasons behind them.
    If you hate capitalism so much, then just write everything in lower case. Problem solved.

  6. #16
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    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    I think voting history should be public record.

  7. #17
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    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    I don't think I understand your point. Mine is that if it was public knowledge who the union voted for, and who all their members voted for, and who all the coal miners voted for, it would be far easier to see that people were being discriminated against, to publicize it, and to put a stop to it. The type of political discrimination you're talking about is partially a result of the fact that the ballots are confidential.


    As eloquent as that may be, it simply isn't true. I don't think you really believe that secret ballots alone can guarantee freedom.
    On the contrary, I believe it wholeheartedly. The abuses I spoke of in the coal fields were because of the lengths to which dangerous people would go to even when votes were confidential. Imagine the carnage if a person's vote were open to those with a murderous bent: Let us remember the Killing Fields of Cambodia under Pol Pot.

  8. #18
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    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    I would vote in your poll but you decided to make the voting public.

  9. #19
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    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by SayMyName View Post
    Let us remember the Killing Fields of Cambodia under Pol Pot.
    Pol Pot had absolutely nothing what so ever to do with the subject at hand. However the current situation here does. The government knows exactly who votes for who. This year over 2 million people (in a country with a population of only 15 mill) were turned away from voting stations despite having signed up to vote. All of those turned away were opposition supporters. Their votes would have made the difference between winning and losing the election.

    The government gets away with it because they claim they don't know who votes for who, and that people were turned away for non political reasons. My position is that greater transparency would help expose the current situation for what it is. The government already knows, so the only people who don't are the people who'd be in a position to help if the situation was proven beyond doubt and dispute.

    Just like the Unions already figured out who your coal mining buddies vote for, the only people who don't know are the people who could help, but can't prove that the violence is politically motivated.
    If you hate capitalism so much, then just write everything in lower case. Problem solved.

  10. #20
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    Re: Should Voting be Confidential?

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    I would vote in your poll but you decided to make the voting public.
    Do you think people would be less inclined to vote if they thought they might have to justify their decision and be held accountable for it? And do you think that's a good thing or a bad thing?
    If you hate capitalism so much, then just write everything in lower case. Problem solved.

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