View Poll Results: Should the hospital treat you or wait until they know if you can pay

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  • The hospital should treat you

    31 86.11%
  • They should find out if you can pay before treating you

    2 5.56%
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Thread: Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act

  1. #61
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    Re: Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    First off, the person is my daughter not my sister.
    Second here in Ohio we have the Cleveland Clinic, I am sure you are familiar with them. Here is a link breaking down why Cleveland Clinic had to cut back due to Obamacare.

    Is Obamacare really to blame for cuts at the Cleveland Clinic and other hospitals? | cleveland.com

    The number of doctors limiting or no longer accepting Medicare patients has been increasing over the past couple of years.
    Are you kidding me? The article you linked to explained why it's *not* ACA that is causing the cutbacks. It's the sequester and the state's refusal to expand Medicaid (thanks to republicans) that is causing the cutbacks!


    Again, not caused by ACA. There are more doctors accepting medicare and medicaid, and more doctors overall, and ACA is expanding those #'s, not cutting them back



    Edit- And you are dead wrong to believe there are no other added costs to doctors and hospitals over the bureaucratic red tape involved with government insurance. They have to hire a staff of people just to deal with all the crap. Not to mention increase the size of the office space for them to work. Do you think that all comes free too? Like Rock Candy Mountain?
    Hospitals have to add staff to deal with insurance?

    You mean, dealing with insurance is something they didn't have to do before ACA?

    You're hilarious!!
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #62
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    Re: Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Are you kidding me? The article you linked to explained why it's *not* ACA that is causing the cutbacks. It's the sequester and the state's refusal to expand Medicaid (thanks to republicans) that is causing the cutbacks!
    Go read them again. There are a number of reasons why the hospitals are feeling the pinch directly related to Obamacare. The sequester was just ONE of the cuts the hospitals have had to endure. Obamacare cuts the amount of payment the hospital and the doctor will receive for Medicare patients.

    Again, not caused by ACA. There are more doctors accepting medicare and medicaid, and more doctors overall, and ACA is expanding those #'s, not cutting them back
    And the moon is made of cheese. But those who are accepting Medicaid/Medicare patients will continue to dwindle and folks will be waiting a long time to get into see their doctor.

    Hospitals have to add staff to deal with insurance?

    You mean, dealing with insurance is something they didn't have to do before ACA?
    You obviously have no clue how burdensome it is dealing with the Federal government when it comes to health care. Their code of rules of what they cover/when they cover something is so convoluted that it takes a trained staff just to deal with government claims.

    You're hilarious!!
    You think so? Well I don't think the idea of having to wait to get in to see my doctor is very hilarious. I recently had to make an appointment. In the past the longest I have ever had to wait was, 8-10 days. The next available appointment was 5 weeks away. Thank God it wasn't life threatening.

    I found a piece written this month at Forbes that describes to a tee how things are shaping up in my area. Read it and weep for it may be coming to your town soon. One could only hope so, .... . After all it is all who voted for this boondoggle that raised my premiums and deductibles to ridiculous levels and now is making it harder to see a doctor..... may it happen to all of you.

    The Fourth Obamacare Shock Wave Is About To Reach Us - Forbes
    Last edited by vesper; 12-04-13 at 04:20 AM.

  3. #63
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    Re: Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act

    It's only human decency to help someone who is hurt. That's the first priority.

    Because it's also the law, many of the innercity hospitals throughout California are shutting down their emergency facilities because so few people there pay.

    It's not widely published that many are also opening up 24 hr. emergency clinics in the more affluent areas of town while closing down the innercity emergency rooms. Somebody has to pay or everybody loses out.

    There's just no profit in having so many nonpaying families walk in with five or six kids, all with the sniffles, and all demanding free treatment, while the guy with a broken arm sits there for hours.
    Last edited by Ray410; 12-04-13 at 05:23 AM.

  4. #64
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    Re: Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Sure, they can try.

    But people don't get thousands and thousands of dollars of emergency treatment by fooling the ER staff. ER's across the nation knowingly and willingly treat people for non-emergency conditions.
    Exactly. Because they know that, for millions, it's the only medical treatment some of them will get. But with the ACA, they know that won't be the case anymore.

  5. #65
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    Re: Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Theft is taking someone's property without consent or permission of that person with the intent of depriving that person of that property.The patient who received emergency medical care did not take the hospital's property without consent or permission of the hospital.It anyone took the medical care without consent or permission of the hospital it was the government.
    To many folks, mostly on the left, there is no distinction between voluntary and mandatory charity; that is the moral, yet not constitutional, basis for federal income redistribution. It seems that no private person or medical care provider has the "right" to refuse to behave as directed by the gov't.

    Why not make SNAP work this way too? Instead of having EBT cards give taxpayer cash to the food providers, simply make it a mandate for a food provider to dispense X amount of food to each "poor" EBT card holder? That way, just like for ER care, the provider must pass along the hidden cost of mandated charity to all others - saving the gov't the trouble of taxation, and the people the need to pay federal middlemen in the process.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #66
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    Re: Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Go read them again. There are a number of reasons why the hospitals are feeling the pinch directly related to Obamacare. The sequester was just ONE of the cuts the hospitals have had to endure. Obamacare cuts the amount of payment the hospital and the doctor will receive for Medicare patients.
    No, the article clearly states that the reason for the cuts in payments are due to the sequester, cost cutting measure Congress has taken (other than ACA), and your state's decision to not expand Medicaid.



    And the moon is made of cheese. But those who are accepting Medicaid/Medicare patients will continue to dwindle and folks will be waiting a long time to get into see their doctor.
    Continue to dwindle? The # is growing!

    Your argument is completely detached from reality



    You obviously have no clue how burdensome it is dealing with the Federal government when it comes to health care. Their code of rules of what they cover/when they cover something is so convoluted that it takes a trained staff just to deal with government claims.
    That's the insurance companies who make it convoluted, not the govt.



    You think so? Well I don't think the idea of having to wait to get in to see my doctor is very hilarious. I recently had to make an appointment. In the past the longest I have ever had to wait was, 8-10 days. The next available appointment was 5 weeks away. Thank God it wasn't life threatening.
    Five years before ACA was even being debated, it took me almost 10 weeks to get an appt for my mom who did have a life threatening condition.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #67
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    Re: Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, the article clearly states that the reason for the cuts in payments are due to the sequester, cost cutting measure Congress has taken (other than ACA), and your state's decision to not expand Medicaid.





    Continue to dwindle? The # is growing!

    Your argument is completely detached from reality





    That's the insurance companies who make it convoluted, not the govt.





    Five years before ACA was even being debated, it took me almost 10 weeks to get an appt for my mom who did have a life threatening condition.
    The number of doctors accepting Medicaid and Medicare patients is not growing. The only thing that is growing are the number of people enrolling into the programs. The only people who have claimed more doctors are accepting these patients are the idiots at HHS a few months back and these same people haven't got one dang thing right since this whole Obamacare implementation began.

    More Doctors Rejecting New Medicaid Patients As Program Expands; Posing Threat Of A Shortage

    From your comments you still do not grasp the additional cost to administrations in dealing with government insurance nor do you seem to grasp the less than adequate payment the government approves for hospital/doctors services with another looming cut of 25% in payment for services rendered that hospitals and doctors will be facing in 2014. As the shortage of doctors continues, I wonder how long it will be before some Progressive yahoo in Congress will propose legislation forcing doctors to take Medicare and Medicaid patients which will amount to forcing them to work for a bag of beans and bag of rice.
    Last edited by vesper; 12-04-13 at 01:42 PM.

  8. #68
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    Re: Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    The number of doctors accepting Medicaid and Medicare patients is not growing. The only thing that is growing are the number of people enrolling into the programs. The only people who have claimed more doctors are accepting these patients are the idiots at HHS a few months back and these same people haven't got one dang thing right since this whole Obamacare implementation began.
    You have already been proven wrong about this. With the large increase in the # of doctors, there has been an increase in the # of doctors who don't accept Medicare and an increase in the # of doctors who do accept Medicare.

    This is basic arithmetic.

    From your comments you still do not grasp the additional cost to administrations in dealing with government insurance nor do you seem to grasp the less than adequate payment the government approves for hospital/doctors services with another looming cut of 25% in payment for services rendered that hospitals and doctors will be facing in 2014. As the shortage of doctors continues, I wonder how long it will be before some Progressive yahoo in Congress will propose legislation forcing doctors to take Medicare and Medicaid patients which will amount to forcing them to work for a bag of beans and bag of rice.
    From your comments it's obvious that you can't identify one additional cost. All you can do is repeat your dishonest claim that they exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #69
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    Re: Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    To many folks, mostly on the left, there is no distinction between voluntary and mandatory charity; that is the moral, yet not constitutional, basis for federal income redistribution. It seems that no private person or medical care provider has the "right" to refuse to behave as directed by the gov't.
    Its too easy to spend money when it is not yours. This is why the government spends money like a drunken trophy wife whore or why the left demands all sorts of benefits.

    Why not make SNAP work this way too? Instead of having EBT cards give taxpayer cash to the food providers, simply make it a mandate for a food provider to dispense X amount of food to each "poor" EBT card holder? That way, just like for ER care, the provider must pass along the hidden cost of mandated charity to all others - saving the gov't the trouble of taxation, and the people the need to pay federal middlemen in the process.
    I would prefer that welfare recipients use wic vouchers. WIC vouchers tell you what exactly you can buy and when you can buy it.This would save tax payers money and eliminate what I call food stamp hell day at the grocery stores.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  10. #70
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    Re: Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Right, we were talking about non-emergency care. ER's have no obligation to provide non-emergency care, so how can they avoid lawsuits by providing non-emergency care?
    Because a jury of those uneducated in medical treatment will hear a sob story and decide it should have been treated if you refuse. So many ERs set the triage bar for emergencies low.

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