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Is Obama a good president?[W:577]

Is Obama a good president?

  • Total voters
    176
ChrisL said:
At first I didn't think that was such a big deal, but now the more I think about it the more horrible I think it is.

Wasn't it more accurately corporations are people though? :)
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What I was talking about is the Citizen's United ruling which prohibited the government from restricting political independent expenditures by corporations, associations or labor unions. In plain English, money is speech.
 
Perotista said:
What I was talking about is the Citizen's United ruling which prohibited the government from restricting political independent expenditures by corporations, associations or labor unions. In plain English, money is speech.
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Yes, that's what I was talking about too.
 
ChrisL said:
Yes, that's what I was talking about too.
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So unless there is a constitutional amendment, no limits can be placed even if one were to use public money to finance campaigns.
 
Perotista said:
So unless there is a constitutional amendment, no limits can be placed even if one were to use public money to finance campaigns.
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Yeah, that stinks. :(
 
ChrisL said:
Isn't he like 100 now? :mrgreen:
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I had to look him up, since I didn't know. I remembered that was one of the most exciting elections I had voted in, though! He was born August 1930, which makes him 83 years old. Oddly, George Soros, who is one of those backing Obama, was born in June 1930, which makes both of them 83 years old. Ironically, I had posted a few days that one of the differences between the very wealthy and the rest of us is that the very wealthy don't retire at 65...they find other interests and keep on working into their 80s and 90s. Glad to see I was right! :mrgreen: I think that Perot would be considered too old to run for POTUS, if he were even interested in doing so, but it was a nice daydream for me to think about. :lol:
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
what makes him stand out for me is the amount of and the intensity of support he had following his first election. I think a more forceful push from him on healthcare reform would have been able to deliver a much more broader policy change on the matter. But it seemed his main concern was simply getting a second term, which ultimately turned his 8 year presidency into a rather disappointing experience
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Just because Obama ran an excellent campaign, convinced a lot of people that he was not what he really was, so they voted for him, twice, doesn't mean anything about how good a president the man is.

It is a clear indication of how good a candidate and campaigner he is, and to some extent how gullible the people are who voted for him, considering the performance that he's managed.
 
Perotista said:
Too old and has been enjoying being out of the limelight since 2000. I think if someone who has the money Perot had, the middle of 2015 would probably be the cut off date. But whoever it is going to be, he better have charisma and a vision for America that people can relate to. He also must have a cause, an issue that is near and dear to the peoples heart. Back in 1992, the rising debt was just that as people started to worry about their children s future. Who that might be, I haven the faintest idea.
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I just posted to ChrisL that both Perot and Soros are 83, born within two months of each other in 1930! Maybe it's the lifestyle they lead, or the wine they drink, or something else, but I found that fact interesting! :mrgreen:
 
polgara said:
I just posted to ChrisL that both Perot and Soros are 83, born within two months of each other in 1930! Maybe it's the lifestyle they lead, or the wine they drink, or something else, but I found that fact interesting! :mrgreen:
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Did I tell you how I first came to learn of Ross Perot? I was stationed in Vientiane Laos in December of 1969. We were briefed to stay away from downtown Vientiane as this guy Perot would be arriving the week of Christmas with a plane load of Christmas Presents for our POW’s being held in Hanoi. A 707 none the less. There would be a ton of reporters tagging along. Ross would attempt to deliver the Christmas Presents to the North Vietnamese Ambassador to Laos in Vientiane. None of us had any idea who Ross Perot was. But he took several truck loads of these Christmas Presents to the North Vietnamese Embassy and demanded to see the North Vietnamese Ambassador. Of course the Ambassador refused to see Ross and also refused to accept the Christmas Presents.


I don’t know how much play this got in the states, but to us in Vientiane it was a pretty big thing. I had no idea who this Perot guy was, but he immediately received my respect for what he tried to do. I plain forgot about him in the years after until I heard he was about to announce his candidacy for the presidency in 1992 on Larry King. I watch and when I seen his concern for the rising debt was the same as mine, I was hooked. But to my dying day, I will always remember him trying to deliver those Christmas Presents for our POW’s to the North Vietnamese. He is or was one feisty little fellow and I am sure he would have made an excellent president.
 
Perotista said:
Did I tell you how I first came to learn of Ross Perot? I was stationed in Vientiane Laos in December of 1969. We were briefed to stay away from downtown Vientiane as this guy Perot would be arriving the week of Christmas with a plane load of Christmas Presents for our POW’s being held in Hanoi. A 707 none the less. There would be a ton of reporters tagging along. Ross would attempt to deliver the Christmas Presents to the North Vietnamese Ambassador to Laos in Vientiane. None of us had any idea who Ross Perot was. But he took several truck loads of these Christmas Presents to the North Vietnamese Embassy and demanded to see the North Vietnamese Ambassador. Of course the Ambassador refused to see Ross and also refused to accept the Christmas Presents.


I don’t know how much play this got in the states, but to us in Vientiane it was a pretty big thing. I had no idea who this Perot guy was, but he immediately received my respect for what he tried to do. I plain forgot about him in the years after until I heard he was about to announce his candidacy for the presidency in 1992 on Larry King. I watch and when I seen his concern for the rising debt was the same as mine, I was hooked. But to my dying day, I will always remember him trying to deliver those Christmas Presents for our POW’s to the North Vietnamese. He is or was one feisty little fellow and I am sure he would have made an excellent president.
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Thanks for posting that remembrance, Pero. :thumbs: I just knew I liked the guy, and what he said made enough sense to me to vote for him!
 
Perotista said:
I do, this is why in 92 I voted Perot and again in 1996. In 2000 it was Browne and Browne again in 2004. In 2008 I determined that was McCain and in 2012 it was Gary Johnson. All in all, out of the 13 presidential elections I have voted in, 6 times I determined the best candidate was from a third party and voted that way. I will not voted for the lesser of two evils or the least worst candidate just to vote for a Republican or a Democrat.
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That third party idea of yours might not be a ban idea because they would tend to run on their avowed ideals. Would you perhaps make an exception for Perot's son?
 
polgara said:
Thanks for posting that remembrance, Pero. :thumbs: I just knew I liked the guy, and what he said made enough sense to me to vote for him!
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He did a lot more for several different presidents behind the scenes when it came to foreign affairs shall I say. He was a real patriot.
 
polgara said:
:agree: And that attitude seems to be more entrenched every day, instead of getting better. Reid using the nuclear option doesn't help relations between the two parties, either. What's wrong with DC?
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Or, what's wrong with the electorate? That might be a more reasonable question to ask but to answer it would insult half the country.
 
loader said:
Once I hired workers to fix my house. And pay them forward. Repair is still not finished.
The American people (very poor and the very rich) paid to Obama a big advance. Rich got back billions of dollars, poor, its free bread. The middle class got nothing.
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And with government growing unchecked the middle class will continue to shrink until there is just rich and poor, with the politicians and the bureaucracy among the former.
 
Grant said:
Or, what's wrong with the electorate? That might be a more reasonable question to ask but to answer it would insult half the country.
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Yep! :thumbs:

Greetings, Grant. :2wave:
 
Perotista said:
Compromise, giving a little to take a little. A willingness to take two steps backwards in order to move forward three steps. The realization that one can't expect to get 100% of what they want and the other guy 0%. That in order to move legislation forward, sometimes one has to settle for 60% while giving away 40%. Besides most Americans like incrementalism, they have their routine and massive change upsets their apple cart. But people will accept a little change here and a littler there and over time that massive change takes reality.

Politics is said to be the art of the possible. Our politicians need to learn what is and what isn't possible and be willing to nibble at times when taking a full bite isn't possible. They need to talk to each other instead of over the head or around each other. They need to listen to each other and need to try to understand each other. This my way or the highway attitude has to go.
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That's idealistic conservatism at its best but it also tends to mean finishing second.
 
Smeagol said:
Or you're could be misunderstanding. I'm not sure how you define "good" but I did not mean to imply his popularity had anything to do with it. What's happened is there's an entire industry in America dedicated to seeing the president fail, by their own words. In time they were successful in generating a significant level of strong passions against the president using common propaganda tactics we all learned about in high school. Eventually they were able to get like minded candidates elected in sufficnt numbers who took oaths to support their agenda before they even took the oath to support and defend to constitution. Although they do not represent the majority of elected officials and not even the majority of ther own party, they do have enough numbers to bring the country to a screeching halt by refusing to work with the president in way, even hn the majority of their party is willing to. By this, they have limited to some extent our ability to even know what quality of president Obama could be.

Here's an example. The economy has been less than robust in the first term of the Obama presidency. One reason for this is business has been reluctant to plan for growth. Many on the right would say its because businesses cannot afford the Obama tax rate and other regulatory expenses. I think he more honest reason is business had a difficult time predicting future economic conditions during the course of growth because many of the right refused to come to any agreement leaving. Another reason a cording to one of most promimant voices of the far right said with his own mouth, "business was on strike" essentially refusing to do anything that could have helped the economy grow. Injure the American economy on purpose in order to keep the president from succeeding. Fire employees just to increase the unemployment rate in order to help Obama "fail" out of outrage that he got reelected. Their own words. The same exact people who could afford tens of millions of dollars to donate to anti-Obama superpacs so its not like they couldn't afford the salaries.
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That's quite a conspiracy you've got going there.
 
Mordecai said:
(for instance, most Americans poll as wanting to cut the deficit, but the vast majority of Democrats, independents, and Republicans all disagree with cuts to Medicare, Social Security, and the Armed Forces, i.e., give or take 75% of the budget), I've always found that an absolutely laughable criticism directed at just about all politicians.
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Absolutely
 
Grant said:
That third party idea of yours might not be a ban idea because they would tend to run on their avowed ideals. Would you perhaps make an exception for Perot's son?
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I have an affinity to the old man, not his son. I still think NAFTA was a mistake.
 
vesper said:
Someone should write a sequel to his book "Audacity of Hope" and call it "Audacity of Ignorance".
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My mom never let anybody get by with making a statement like this. "Someone should". You are someone. Start writing or stop putting obligations on imaginary people that don't care what you think. Someone is you. Start your book tomorrow. Since you noticed the need and vocalized it, it has now become your responsibility to accomplish it. You have 2 years to complete the task otherwise it will never get done.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
My mom never let anybody get by with making a statement like this. "Someone should". You are someone. Start writing or stop putting obligations on imaginary people that don't care what you think. Someone is you. Start your book tomorrow. Since you noticed the need and vocalized it, it has now become your responsibility to accomplish it. You have 2 years to complete the task otherwise it will never get done.
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You're a hard taskmaster!
 
Grant said:
This might the only time I've disagreed with your fine posts. I totally support honest free trade.
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Not a problem my friend. I personally feel free trade has cost this nation a bunch of jobs. But I am not an expert in that field at all. So it is my gut I am relying on. I think it is the WTO that irks me more than NAFTA, I think this country ought to be able to put up tariffs if a country isn't fair to our companies.
 
Perotista said:
True, especially due to Reid's nuclear option. But as far as legislation is concerned, he is through having burnt his bridges many, many moons ago. It will be all he can do to keep the ACA afloat. If the Republicans are wise, they will just keep quiet and let the ACA speak for itself. But some how, the Republicans will figure out a way to put their foot in their mouth, much like Aiken and Mourdock did last year and those two probably cost the GOP at least 4 senate seats and maybe as many as six. Romney's inept campaign didn't help either.
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These elected officials are public servants. They have to voice the opinion of those who voted them into office. Being wise isn't an option. Go to any local Republican Party website. It can be statewide, district wide, county wide or nation wide. Republicans as a whole have two agendas. Prove Obama is a bad president and get rid of the Affordable Care Act. That's what they have to do. That may be a suicide mission but that is the job of the Republican Party at this moment. That could change in 2015 when the Republican Party rewrites their platform but as for now, elected Republicans are doing their job. Didn't you notice the idiocy of deliberately repeating failed attempt after failed attempt to repeal the Affordable Care Act? Getting elected as a congressmen isn't easy work. These men aren't dummies but they are acting like dummies. They have two goals to accomplish and they have two years to drag it out.

The delegates representing the Republican Party are the ones acting unwise. Maybe smarter Republicans will show up to their local conventions this year. :shrug:
 
Grant said:
You're a hard taskmaster!
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I didn't give him the job. He gave it to himself. If he doesn't do it, he'll have to live with that. The world will suffer without his work.

The best thing to do when you see a need is to fill it.
The second best thing to do when you see a need is to shut up about it.
 
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vasuderatorrent said:
These elected officials are public servants. They have to voice the opinion of those who voted them into office. Being wise isn't an option. Go to any local Republican Party website. It can be statewide, district wide, county wide or nation wide. Republicans as a whole have two agendas. Prove Obama is a bad president and get rid of the Affordable Care Act. That's what they have to do. That may be a suicide mission but that is the job of the Republican Party at this moment. That could change in 2015 when the Republican Party rewrites their platform but as for now, elected Republicans are doing their job. Didn't you notice the idiocy of deliberately repeating failed attempt after failed attempt to repeal the Affordable Care Act? Getting elected as a congressmen isn't easy work. These men aren't dummies but they are acting like dummies. They have two goals to accomplish and they have two years to drag it out.

The delegates representing the Republican Party are the ones acting unwise. Maybe smarter Republicans will show up to their local conventions this year. :shrug:
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I understand where you are coming from. I think the shut down over defunding the ACA was pretty stupid strategy. Just before the shut down going by RCP the gap was 14-19 points advantage in the opposition to the law. Just after that shutdown that gap closed between 4-10 points. The shut down which was caused trying to defund the ACA actually helped it. Call it the law of unintended consequences.

It has taken a month and a half to get that original gap back. I suppose my strategy would be if things are going your way, don't rock the boat.
 
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