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Is Obama a good president?[W:577]

Is Obama a good president?

  • Total voters
    176
Hamster Buddha said:
You know, that mess has really been over-stated. We had just a large a hit to the economy back in the 80's and we were out of it in a couple years time and roaring back. Five years and the recovery is this anemic? That defies every other recession in the 20th Century. Except of course the The Great Depression, where government prolonged a recession out over ten years.
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Bush inherited a booming economy from the Clinton administration, and left us with one of the most serious economic crises in the last one hundred years. I am not sure I follow your reasoning.
 
SayMyName said:
I understand.

Please share with me a president in history that didn't have his own agenda, or that of the party he was a member of?
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Other presidents have compromised and had diplomacy when dealing with the opposition party. THAT is how they got things accomplished. Obama does not want to HEAR about it. He brushes the opposition's ideas under the rug and plugs his own, and makes it sound as if the opposition has no ideas. That is shady as hell.

These are just some of the reasons why I think Obama is a divisive and not a very good president. The question is NOT how I feel about other presidents, is it?
 
SayMyName said:
I understand.

Please share with me a president in history that didn't have his own agenda, or that of the party he was a member of?
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It isn't so much about simply "pushing an agenda". It's also about reaching a consensus for all parties involved. Look at the creation of Medicare, Medicaid, Social security... they could of been rammed through but they weren't. The presidents at the time had super majorities, but respected the office enough to do enough to bring over a sizable portion of the opposing party. Clinton certainly had an agenda, but he worked with a Republican congress and the government benefited. Even with Regan, who had to deal with a democratic congress in 82.. they got stuff done. And you know why, because they had respect for the other side.

Obama neither likes or cares for a single republican. Honestly, he could care less for any ideas they have.
 
SayMyName said:
The title of the thread is, "Is Obama a Good President.?"

I answered he is neither the best nor the worst. He has done a fair job...clarification coming here....cleaning up the mess his predecessor left him. Not sure why that strikes ire in anyone...impartiality. Just because I am a lifelong GOPier, with libertarian tilt, does not make me blind.
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I think fair is accurate. In my jargon it would be below average. So too with Bush the second who proceeded him. So much of what Bush started, Obama continued on with. IMO this president should have concentrated more on the debt, on jobs and the economy. But the first thing he did was health care and ever since that day it was passed, he has been way too busy defending it and trying to keep it. I think of the presidents I have know personally which goes back to Eisenhower, this president and the one before him only rank above Nixon, Carter and Ford. Then if I really gave it a lot of thought, Nixon might even climb above these last two.
 
Hamster Buddha said:
It isn't so much about simply "pushing an agenda". It's also about reaching a consensus for all parties involved. Look at the creation of Medicare, Medicaid, Social security... they could of been rammed through but they weren't. The presidents at the time had super majorities, but respected the office enough to do enough to bring over a sizable portion of the opposing party. Clinton certainly had an agenda, but he worked with a Republican congress and the government benefited. Even with Regan, who had to deal with a democratic congress in 82.. they got stuff done. And you know why, because they had respect for the other side.

Obama neither likes or cares for a single republican. Honestly, he could care less for any ideas they have.
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I remember watching something on one of the 24-hour news channels where Obama and McCain were having a heated discussion about healthcare, and Obama said something on the idea that McCain wasn't the president, HE was, and I found that to be so disrespectful and foul. I couldn't believe it.
 
SayMyName said:
Bush inherited a booming economy from the Clinton administration, and left us with one of the most serious economic crises in the last one hundred years. I am not sure I follow your reasoning.
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Please tell me how the recession of 2008 was so much worst than that of when the Tech Bubble Burst? Or how about the crisis with inflation back in the Carter years that Reagan had to deal with. Or! What about the recession that lead to Clinton coming into office.

And what was Bush to do? Democrats controlled all of congress past 2006.
 
Perotista said:
I think fair is accurate. In my jargon it would be below average. So too with Bush the second who proceeded him. So much of what Bush started, Obama continued on with. IMO this president should have concentrated more on the debt, on jobs and the economy. But the first thing he did was health care and ever since that day it was passed, he has been way too busy defending it and trying to keep it. I think of the presidents I have know personally which goes back to Eisenhower, this president and the one before him only rank above Nixon, Carter and Ford. Then if I really gave it a lot of thought, Nixon might even climb above these last two.
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Well put.
 
SayMyName said:
Well, give life some time. I have lived long enough to have seen it divided for quite awhile. Doesn't seem like it will change, just get more so. Attempts to blame it on Obama are wails of the sadly defeated. I don't know why Obama gets such grief. Maybe there are a lot of people that deep down inside don't like him because he is black. I don't like him either, but I am not going to blame him for all hell freezing over and the lack of a Second Coming of Christ. Goodness.

Having said that, Obama is a lot better than his predecessor, Bush, an whole lot better, and no better or worse than most that we have had in the last few decades.
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Bush's judicial picks are far superior to Obama's. ANd that is normally the lasting legacy of a president. Obamataxcare could be as much a scourge as the idiotic remnants of the New Deal that continue to cause bloated government and legions of multi generational welfare dependents today
 
Hamster Buddha said:
Please tell me how the recession of 2008 was so much worst than that of when the Tech Bubble Burst? Or how about the crisis with inflation back in the Carter years that Reagan had to deal with. Or! What about the recession that lead to Clinton coming into office.

And what was Bush to do? Democrats controlled all of congress past 2006.
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I believe the record speaks for itself, in regards to Bush.


Job growth: annual average (payroll survey):
Clinton: +2,835,000
Bush: -455,000

Economic growth (change in inflation-adjusted gross domestic product):
Clinton: +3.7% per year
Bush: +2.5% per year

Inflation (change in consumer price index):
Clinton: +2.8% per year
Bush: +3.4% per year

Median household income, change:
Clinton: +1.7% per year
Bush: -1.6% per year

Number of Americans in poverty (average change per year):
Clinton: -800,000
Bush: +1.5 million

Number of Americans without health insurance (average change per year):
Clinton: +145,000
Bush: +1,885,000

Federal surplus/deficit (annual average):
Clinton: +$5 billion
Bush: -$350 billion

Sources: Bureau of Labor Statistics, Bureau of Economic Analysis, Census Bureau, White House Office of Management and Budget, National Assn. of Realtors.

I am simply trying to say, as before, he is not the worst, or the best. We libertarians have to keep our perspective, lest the neo-cons continuing using us for their own nefarious ends for more years to come. It's time to espouse our principals, and to do that, we need to keep a keen perspective on the realities of the situation, and not demagogue.
 
SayMyName said:
Well put.
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I think for those who are young and only have 2 or three president to compare these last two with have a hard time if they really can to rate these two accurately. After all it is experience and what you know. If all you experienced was Bush and Obama, you are going to have different outlooks on them. Even going back to Clinton or Bush the first, all you can do is use you own personal experience to say if this one was a good president or not. I think these last two have a long way to go to be as bad if that is the right word as Ford and Carter. But even at the bottom of my list, both Ford and Carter did some good things and had their moments of glory.
 
I thought President Obama brought weak tool set to the Job.
He had almost no executive experience, and he had very little government experience.
His record in the state Senate and US senate were not noteworthy.
He is educated, but inexperienced.
Unfortunately on the job training has not helped him much.
Thankfully just 37 months to go, Our republic has survived worse, and we will survive Obama.
 
Perotista said:
I think for those who are young and only have 2 or three president to compare these last two with have a hard time if they really can to rate these two accurately. After all it is experience and what you know. If all you experienced was Bush and Obama, you are going to have different outlooks on them. Even going back to Clinton or Bush the first, all you can do is use you own personal experience to say if this one was a good president or not. I think these last two have a long way to go to be as bad if that is the right word as Ford and Carter. But even at the bottom of my list, both Ford and Carter did some good things and had their moments of glory.
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Very, very true. I didn't like Carter as President, but I do believe he was and is a good man. Ford as well, though for partisan reasons I preferred him over his predecessor Carter. In the end, it was a scary, turbulent time of great change. The Soviet menace and nuclear war was always looming large.
 
Perotista said:
I think for those who are young and only have 2 or three president to compare these last two with have a hard time if they really can to rate these two accurately. After all it is experience and what you know. If all you experienced was Bush and Obama, you are going to have different outlooks on them. Even going back to Clinton or Bush the first, all you can do is use you own personal experience to say if this one was a good president or not. I think these last two have a long way to go to be as bad if that is the right word as Ford and Carter. But even at the bottom of my list, both Ford and Carter did some good things and had their moments of glory.
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I'm not a fan of Bush either. Make no mistake. :lol:
 
I wonder if Obama's Presidency is in some way similar to Lauren Hill's performance at the Apollo. She's a highly talented performer who was unknown at the time. She took the stage and immediately was greeting by boos and jeers from the audience, so much so it drowned out the audience's ability to hear and affected her ability to perform leaving the audience with no idea on whether she was talented or not. When you start out on day one with stated mission of wanting him to fail in a system where co-operation is required across branches and one of which is controlled by those who want him to fail, its one of those questions we might not ever know the answer to.
 
ChrisL said:
I'm not a fan of Bush either. Make no mistake. :lol:
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Neither do I. But everything is relative. I did not like what Bush considered himself the voice of God on earth. Obama thinks he is a God. Bush had bad advisers. Obama's advisers are smart and cunning villains. Bush's policy was stupid. Obama's policy is a crime.
 
loader said:
Neither do I. But everything is relative. I did not like what Bush considered himself the voice of God on earth. Obama thinks he is a God. Bush had bad advisers. Obama's advisers are smart and cunning villains. Bush's policy was stupid. Obama's policy is a crime.
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I remember Bush's declaration of going to war with Iraq, and thinking why? At the time, the explanation of WMD seemed to make sense, now that there hasn't been any found, I don't know what to think. I do think it wasn't a good decision though. It seems like it was not thought out or planned very well and was a knee jerk reaction to 9-11.

I don't know if Obama's advisers are villains, but I think both parties put their ridiculous ideologies before what might actually be helpful to the country without thinking of the consequences at all. I just don't really trust any of them.
 
Hamster Buddha said:
Please tell me how the recession of 2008 was so much worst than that of when the Tech Bubble Burst?
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For starters, let's examine the fact that the Tech Bubble bursting didn't even result in a recession. It resulted in less than 1/4 of the job losses that came about as a result of the financial crisis and two non consecutive quarters worth of negative GDP growth.

Or how about the crisis with inflation back in the Carter years that Reagan had to deal with.
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The more recent episode dwarfed Reagan's in terms of cumulative job losses, peak to trough unemployment, as well as declines in both personal income and wealth. Throw in the the structural damage dealt to the financial industry and it's not close.

Or! What about the recession that lead to Clinton coming into office.
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Seriously? The peak job losses from said recession didn't even touch 2 million, whereas the more recent example topped 9 million and 5 million in a single calendar year.
 
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ChrisL said:
I don't know if Obama's advisers are villains, but I think both parties put their ridiculous ideologies before what might actually be helpful to the country without thinking of the consequences at all. I just don't really trust any of them.
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How can you trust the government? It is truly Shakespearean question.
Only constant checking and on The pressure of the authorities, could lead to the government, which at least takes its promises.
Although I am glad that Obama failed to fulfill many of its promises, because it would lead to the collapse of the whole country.
 
polgara said:
Good morning, CJ. :2wave:

You may be on to something. Maybe that's the reason no one ever tells him anything---they figure he already knows it all. :mrgreen:

I'm getting an early start today; got lots to get done! It's 22 degrees and snowing, so I'm housebound. I attended a silent auction to benefit a pet rescue animal shelter last evening, and it was fun! Hope all is well with you!
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Good afternoon Lady P - cold here today, but no snow in sight and no snow in the forecast for a couple of weeks, at least - got the car washed today!!!

Have fun!!
 
ChrisL said:
I don't think he's the worst president but is FAR from what I would consider a good president. I find him to be extremely divisive. I don't think I ever remember the country being so divided.
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ChrisL said:
I stand by my statement. I've never seen the country as divided as it is today.
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To be fair the divisiveness isn't all him. The Reps are playing a significant part in this as well.

I completely agree with your first sentence in the first quote.


SayMyName said:
Bush inherited a booming economy from the Clinton administration, and left us with one of the most serious economic crises in the last one hundred years. I am not sure I follow your reasoning.
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Two points...

1) The country was on the edge of recession when Clinton left office, as the dot-com bubble was in the process of bursting,

and

2) Clinton had the luxury of the dot-com bubble to make him look good. An orangutang would have looked good between 1993 and 1999, economy-wise.
 
SayMyName said:
Very, very true. I didn't like Carter as President, but I do believe he was and is a good man. Ford as well, though for partisan reasons I preferred him over his predecessor Carter. In the end, it was a scary, turbulent time of great change. The Soviet menace and nuclear war was always looming large.
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This is very true. One also can't forget the the Camp David Accords of Jimmy C. Then the healing of the nation under Ford from Vietnam and Watergate. What I find as a miracle is actually how close Ford came to being re-elected or elected for the first time. I think one had to live through those times to really understand them. History books do not due the time justice.
 
ChrisL said:
I'm not a fan of Bush either. Make no mistake. :lol:
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If one is able to take off their very dark red or blue colored glasses, put some ear plugs in and just watch how these last two presidents have governed, one would not see that much of a difference. The differences are only around the edges when it comes to governing, it is the rhetoric that is polar opposite. I think in reality if one liked the way George W. Bush governed one should like the way Obama has governed. If one didn't like Bush's approach to governing, then one shouldn't like Obamas. So much is similar.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Good afternoon Lady P - cold here today, but no snow in sight and no snow in the forecast for a couple of weeks, at least - got the car washed today!!!

Have fun!!
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You got your car washed? Mine is going to be feeling so sorry for itself! :mrgreen: I did get the oil changed yesterday, though.

I will have fun today, because I have a collection of Department 56 North Pole Christmas buildings, bought over the years, most of them animated, that I will put on display. I become very popular with children this time of year, for some reason! :mrgreen: They watch them for hours! Fun, fun, fun! I got my tree up a few days ago, so I'm getting ready slowly, CJ!
 
loader said:
How can you trust the government? It is truly Shakespearean question.
Only constant checking and on The pressure of the authorities, could lead to the government, which at least takes its promises.
Although I am glad that Obama failed to fulfill many of its promises, because it would lead to the collapse of the whole country.
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It's an oxymoron! :lol:
 
Perotista said:
If one is able to take off their very dark red or blue colored glasses, put some ear plugs in and just watch how these last two presidents have governed, one would not see that much of a difference. The differences are only around the edges when it comes to governing, it is the rhetoric that is polar opposite. I think in reality if one liked the way George W. Bush governed one should like the way Obama has governed. If one didn't like Bush's approach to governing, then one shouldn't like Obamas. So much is similar.
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I totally agree, and the only real difference is regarding taxation, which is a pretty big thing I guess. However, people seem to think that raising taxes on a few is going to solve all the problems that our country is facing right now, without realizing that a big part of the problem is that so many are out of the workforce and are contributing very little if at all as far as taxes go, and with all of our entitlement programs and all of the people collecting off them, something's gotta give.
 
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