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Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

Draft?


  • Total voters
    85
Good thing I do, then.

Is that why you support the draft? You know, the very thing we are talking about that ignores the consent of the people to serve.
 
So all I must do to violate the natural rights of people and be righteous in my cause is form an organization called the government. To many of you if I were to do this I can draft people to my cause even if that might mean their death, ignore their lack of consent and take from them whatever I desire and declare I need it to provide them services that they never asked to receive.

The institutions of culture and systems of economic production we depend on to enjoy our quality of life cannot exist under the perpetual threat or reality of armed force. Every person who partakes of them has a responsibility to themselves, their family, their neighbors, their ancestors, and their descendants to defend the body politic and its possessions, both what is private and what is held in common.

A nation isn't a confederacy or a free association where people can scatter to the four winds at the first sign of trouble, it comes with as many obligations as it does with commodities.

Just allowing our citizens not to fight in a war encourages aggressive action against our country.

Your fore-bearers lived and died settling and defending this country so that their descendants could enjoy a quality of life never before imagined or realized in the history of our race, so you can bet that you have a perpetual responsibility to be equal to their sacrifice if the occasion demands it.
 
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The institutions of culture and systems of economic production we depend on to enjoy our quality of life cannot exist under the perpetual threat or reality of armed force. Every person who partakes of them has a responsibility to themselves, their family, their neighbors, their ancestors, and their descendants to defend the body politic and its possessions, both what is private and what is held in common.

A nation isn't a confederacy or a free association where people can scatter to the four winds at the first sign of trouble, it comes with as many obligations as it does with commodities.

Just allowing our citizens not to fight in a war encourages aggressive action against our country.

Your fore-bearers lived and died settling and defending this country so that their descendants could enjoy a quality of life never before imagined or realized in the history of our race, so you can bet that you have a perpetual responsibility to be equal to their sacrifice if the occasion demands it.

I have no obligation towards those that came before me and decided to fight for causes they found agreeable nor do I have an obligation towards the country as a whole that i never offered my consent to be part of. Just as the founders of this country swore no alliance to the king of england, I swore no alliance to the rulers of this land. Just as the founders had no obligation to fight for the causes of those that came before them, I have no obligation to fight for the causes of those that came before me. Just as those that came before me had the right to decide on their own free will what causes they were wiling to fight for, I have the right to decide on causes I am willing to fight for. Just because I was born under the rule of a body of people that wish to maintain their rule does not mean I'm obligated to assist them in their cause and grant them their desires. Just because I was born in a community of men, women and children in a certain land does not mean that I'm obligated to protect them or their property and die for their causes.
 
I have no obligation towards those that came before me and decided to fight for causes they found agreeable nor do I have an obligation towards the country as a whole that i never offered my consent to be part of. Just as the founders of this country swore no alliance to the king of england, I swore no alliance to the rulers of this land. Just as the founders had no obligation to fight for the causes of those that came before them, I have no obligation to fight for the causes of those that came before me. Just as those that came before me had the right to decide on their own free will what causes they were wiling to fight for, I have the right to decide on causes I am willing to fight for. Just because I was born under the rule of a body of people that wish to maintain their rule does not mean I'm obligated to assist them in their cause and grant them their desires. Just because I was born in a community of men, women and children in a certain land does not mean that I'm obligated to protect them or their property and die for their causes.

Then there is no reason for those who do to allow you to live among them, at least not as a citizen. Since you can't be trusted to contribute in hard times, your rights, happiness, and safety are a tertiary concern to the body politic. Attention and resources must be reserved to those who are prepared to earn standing.

nor do I have an obligation towards the country as a whole that i never offered my consent to be part of.

The semantics of 'consent' and social contracts are unmeaningful. Participation in our economy and culture entails participation in the community's defense. While exemptions can and should be made for those unable to contribute, able people who refuse to serve as contributors must serve as examples.
 
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Hell, I think some mandatory form of military/public/government service for a year would be great for the UK, and probably every other nation.

those of us who work half the year to pay taxes have already done far more than that
 
Is that why you support the draft? You know, the very thing we are talking about that ignores the consent of the people to serve.

Being a US citizen comes with duties. You have to serve on a jury if called upon, don't you?
 
I am thinking about this, I am not sure. You contend your working and paying taxes is far more of a contribution than doing your time in the service?
those of us who work half the year to pay taxes have already done far more than that
 
only if those who lose a drafted son or daughter have the right to try and execute for murder anyone who makes a decision that needlessly wastes the lives of said child. Under that standard, LBJ and Westmoreland-among others-would have been extinct shortly after the start of vietnam.
 
I am thinking about this, I am not sure. You contend your working and paying taxes is far more of a contribution than doing your time in the service?

You work 30-40 years and half of what you make goes to the governments? that sounds like involuntary servitude to me

there is no legitimate argument for a draft. If people are actually invading my homeland I will be out there trying to kill them even though I am 54 now. invading Vietnam? we should have executed a bunch of politicians for that abomination
 
Then there is no reason for those who do to allow you to live among them, at least not as a citizen. Since you can't be trusted to contribute in hard times, your rights, happiness, and safety are a tertiary concern to the body politic. Attention and resources must be reserved to those who are prepared to earn standing.

I never asked to be a citizen or to be under the rule and command of others. It was simply thrust upon me at the demand of those that came before me at my birth. I had no choice in the matter and I have no reason today to feel threatened by the prospect of the abandonment of such forces upon me. Perhaps if those that thrust their rule on me convinced me of their stead I would feel a bit of loss at the idea of abandonment, but they have nothing of the sort, and thus I can feel no loss because of their decision to leave me out of it if that is indeed what they desire to do.

If the people desire to fight for the causes of a government they never consented to then they have my permission and my best wishes in reaching their goals. The least they can do in kind is offer me permission to not fight for causes that I do not believe in and have no desire to take part in. If they wish to indeed be a society that could possibly convince me to consider them worthy of my consideration and my protection then they must learn to respect my wishes as much as they respect theirs. Otherwise, I will refuse to join them and fight along side them as I will consider them nothing but brutes not deserving of victory.

The semantics of 'consent' and social contracts are unmeaningful. Participation in our economy and culture entails participation in the community's defense. While exemptions can and should be made for those unable to contribute, able people who refuse to serve as contributors must serve as examples.

No, participation in an economy means nothing to the communities defense. It merely means that I'm doing what I feel is my own self interest to reach the goals that I feel worthy of my time, efforts and property.
 
Being a US citizen comes with duties. You have to serve on a jury if called upon, don't you?

They can force me to show up, but they can not force me to consider it worthy of my time or efforts. If they put me on a jury on a case where they are trying to imprison someone for enjoying drugs they are going to be awarded with nothing but rejection of their case.
 
Do you have a right to force people to fight for you? Yes or no? Why would it be any different for the government?

Because government can do things that individual citizens cannot do.
 
I never asked to be a citizen or to be under the rule and command of others. It was simply thrust upon me at the demand of those that came before me at my birth. I had no choice in the matter and I have no reason today to feel threatened by the prospect of the abandonment of such forces upon me. QUOTE]
When does your sentence to be exiled here in the USA end?
 
I agree with you about Vietnam but I dont think paying taxes and actually taking a chance of getting shot up are close to the same. I am going to really research Libertarian phliosophy as I have time, there must be something to it I am missing.
You work 30-40 years and half of what you make goes to the governments? that sounds like involuntary servitude to me

there is no legitimate argument for a draft. If people are actually invading my homeland I will be out there trying to kill them even though I am 54 now. invading Vietnam? we should have executed a bunch of politicians for that abomination
 
When does your sentence to be exiled here in the USA end?

Will robbing me of my property reward you with merit for your case against me?
 
I never asked to be a citizen or to be under the rule and command of others. It was simply thrust upon me at the demand of those that came before me at my birth. I had no choice in the matter and I have no reason today to feel threatened by the prospect of the abandonment of such forces upon me. Perhaps if those that thrust their rule on me convinced me of their stead I would feel a bit of loss at the idea of abandonment, but they have nothing of the sort, and thus I can feel no loss because of their decision to leave me out of it if that is indeed what they desire to do.

The title of citizenship is thrust upon you, like a protective cloak. That is appropriate because homo sapien infants (unlike those of turtles and other species) are not born able to live without the support of their parents and community; they can't acquire foods and have few inborn skills they can make immediate use of. After that, 'citizenship' is a multifaceted, ongoing process, and not a split second decision. It is something that carries over many decisions and actions, something you grow into. But much like the toys or clothing that can be thrown aside as you grow older, citizenship too can be folded away. And it should be taken away from people who don't use it responsibly and put everyone in danger.

If the people desire to fight for the causes of a government they never consented to then they have my permission and my best wishes in reaching their goals. The least they can do in kind is offer me permission to not fight for causes that I do not believe in and have no desire to take part in. If they wish to indeed be a society that could possibly convince me to consider them worthy of my consideration and my protection then they must learn to respect my wishes as much as they respect theirs. Otherwise, I will refuse to join them and fight along side them as I will consider them nothing but brutes not deserving of victory.

Human beings can't consent to having a body of laws or a government anymore than they can consent to having an arm. It's part of what we are. The ones who don't have one are at an evolutionary disadvantage and cease to exist unless someone intercedes on their behalf.

No, participation in an economy means nothing to the communities defense. It merely means that I'm doing what I feel is my own self interest to reach the goals that I feel worthy of my time, efforts and property.

What you call 'property' barely even exists without the threat of force to protect it. In such situations, it is a fleeting, transient, thing, not the engine of the robust markets characteristic of powerful civilizations. Neither does 'time or safety' or any other resource you use to develop your life exist unless a collective association stands watch over it. The threat of force of a single individual doesn't amount to enough to safeguard property or the economic systems that create it, but that of a whole nation can. That is why conscientious individuals must form a body politic of some sort. People who don't want to be part of the systems that protect property can take their possessions and go somewhere else that will have them, or accept second-class status as non-citizens.
 
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They can force me to show up,

Exactly.

but they can not force me to consider it worthy of my time or efforts.
If they put me on a jury on a case where they are trying to imprison someone for enjoying drugs they are going to be awarded with nothing but rejection of their case.

Sounds like you'd make a bad soldier.
 
Unless it is in defense of the country's own soil, no.
 
Sure it does. But we here in the United States will not have a draft unless our elected Representatives and Senators pass a draft law and the president signs it. No draft can take place unless congress first acts. But the right is there for congress to act and if it does, then this country does have the right to draft.
 

Forcing me to show up means very little if it turns out to be a waste of their time.

Sounds like you'd make a bad soldier.

Of course I would. I am no solider and I have no desire to take heed of those that feel they can command me without my permission.
 
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