View Poll Results: Draft?

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  • Yes

    62 62.00%
  • No

    27 27.00%
  • Maybe/Not Sure

    8 8.00%
  • War is never the answer.

    3 3.00%
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Thread: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

  1. #301
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Do you believe that a country was the right to draft it's citizens into it's armed forces during a time of war?
    Right smight lippity spite. It's the government. They don't need your permission. A draft is a completely reasonable measure for the government to take to defend it's borders.

    I think when your country is being invaded rights don't really matter too much.

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    The country has whatever "rights" they choose to put in their highest rule of law. If a draft is a legal provision for that country then yes, they do have that right.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    This is an extremely unconvincing line of argument for me. It smacks of an emotive hyperbole. I do not think the country was lost after the Civil War, after World War I, after World War II, etc. Do you?
    In terms of principle, yes. However, only 2% of Civil war fighters were draftees. Most were volunteers. The effect of the draft was largely minimal in that instance. This only further proves my point: if the war is really worth fighting for, there should be no need for the draft. Most of the wars the US is fighting today are not worth it.

    I return to my original and sole argument which is that on occasion it is sometimes in our wider interests (even if some disagree) to engage in conscription for specific purposes. I'd never claim it is anything other than a hypocritical position for me to take, but I'll still stake it out. On a practical level it clearly has utility and its comparison to enlistment incentives or mercenaries fails because of the palpable reality that historically conscription has been a more effective mechanism for mass mobilization in more trying or difficult times. When euphoria wears out and crisis draws in it tends to do its job. Is it the ideal course of action? No. But on a limited basis can I justify the violation of your rights to serve what I think is a greater purpose? Yes.
    Slavery was also practically more efficient and was in the wider interests of the south, but that does not justify involuntary servitude. The exact same argument is true for the draft. It doesn't matter how practical it is. That the draft has been historically effective is questionable at best (often with the draft there were many volunteers) but even if I grant that historically it has been more effective, that says absolutely nothing about better ways of doing things in the future. If the draft was not granted as an option, other ways would be developed to meet the need. In this way the existence of the draft hinders other more just options from coming into usage.

    Can I enslave you to pick my corn, violating your rights, to serve what I think is a greater purpose? No.

    Can I enslave you to fight my war, violating your same rights, to serve what I think is a greater purpose? No, for the same reasons.

    You are right about one thing: your argument is hypocritical. And to me, a hypocritical argument is far less convincing than theconsistent protection of basic human dignity and liberty.
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    The domestic Tranquility of a State, is also a States' right pursuant to our Second Amendment.
    It doesnt say that, but that has what to do with conscription?

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    It doesnt say that, but that has what to do with conscription?
    The security of a free State must include the domestic Tranquility. It has to do with a civil obligation to the defense of the State.

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    The security of a free State must include the domestic Tranquility. It has to do with a civil obligation to the defense of the State.
    No, thats what a military is for. So citizens dont HAVE to fight. They hire someone else to protect them.

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    "War" is GREATLY misused now.

    Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq - were not "wars." They were "police military actions."

    My answer is NO for "police actions" for foreign policy reasons.

    Yes, for wars of true national defense and survival - such as WWII was.

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Yes, for wars of true national defense and survival - such as WWII was.
    Oh yeah? Why did our nation survive so long without getting involved? Didn't Hitler start his shaningans way before the U.S. got involved? He was in Germany. We were in the United States. The Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean were already in place back in 1941. Are you sure it was National Defense? or just doing the morally right thing for suffering human beings?

    WWII was not about national defense and survival. This doesn't mean our participation wasn't justified.

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Did you ever play RISK? Of course WWII was about National Defense. It was about survival.
    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    Oh yeah? Why did our nation survive so long without getting involved? Didn't Hitler start his shaningans way before the U.S. got involved? He was in Germany. We were in the United States. The Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean were already in place back in 1941. Are you sure it was National Defense? or just doing the morally right thing for suffering human beings?

    WWII was not about national defense and survival. This doesn't mean our participation wasn't justified.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Then why did the USA win WW2 ( they used the draft) if a country has lost already if they draft?
    WWII was a war of literal national survival. Worth fighting for.

    The problem with a draft in a policing war for foreign policy and for which there are 1,000 rules of limiting engagement as was in Vietnam, is a large percentage of those drafted and sent there singularly care about staying alive and getting out of there. Via filming, the military increasingly came to learn such draftees won't fight, won't shoot except for self preservation if at all, and would avoid battle and armed conflict anyway possible. They also found (I can't find a link at the moment and it wasn't shouted out) then tended to shoot officers who tried to force them into high risk combat.

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