View Poll Results: Draft?

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  • Yes

    62 62.00%
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  • Maybe/Not Sure

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  • War is never the answer.

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Thread: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

  1. #291
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    If conscription is resorted to, the country is already lost. If a country devolves to the point where it forces its citizens to fight its wars, the country is no longer worth fighting for.
    I like the sentiment. But I would rephrase as, "If conscription is resorted to, the state is already lost. If a state devolves to the point where it forces its citizens to fight its wars, the state is no longer worth fighting for."

    There is a very big difference between a society and a state. A state is simply a corporation that claims jurisdiction over a society.

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    This came up in another thread. Do you believe that a country was the right to draft it's citizens into it's armed forces during a time of war.

    I personally believed that it does if that country is going to survive.


    Added in:

    In regards to the United States I'm talking about an official declaration of war being declared.
    Only if the people give that 'power' to the country (govt). For example, in the US, there is no such power. In fact, involuntary servitude is specifically prohibited, as is deprivation of life and liberty without due process.

  3. #293
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Only if the people give that 'power' to the country (govt). For example, in the US, there is no such power. In fact, involuntary servitude is specifically prohibited, as is deprivation of life and liberty without due process.
    But is that negated since the Government can call up the Militia and every able body man is part of the Militia under the U.S. Law?

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Then why did the USA win WW2 ( they used the draft) if a country has lost already if they draft?
    I didn't say the country has lost. I said the country is lost. The is a difference there. Also, what I meant should have been clear--it was explained in the second sentence of my post.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  5. #295
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I like the sentiment. But I would rephrase as, "If conscription is resorted to, the state is already lost. If a state devolves to the point where it forces its citizens to fight its wars, the state is no longer worth fighting for."

    There is a very big difference between a society and a state. A state is simply a corporation that claims jurisdiction over a society.
    There is a difference between society and state, but I didn't use the term society. I used country, typically used to mean state. With that said, I agree with your change if that makes it clearer and agree with you.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  6. #296
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    But is that negated since the Government can call up the Militia and every able body man is part of the Militia under the U.S. Law?
    It does not say every able bodied man is part of the militia, in the constitution. And the bill of rights and 13th amendment would superceed that. Remember that in the Declaration of Indepence, conscription was one of the complaints levied at King George.

    “He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.”

    I would argue that while congress has the power to raise armies, they do not have to power to do so by effectively forcing citizens at gun point to join those armies.

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    It does not say every able bodied man is part of the militia, in the constitution. And the bill of rights and 13th amendment would supersede that. Remember that in the Declaration of Independence, conscription was one of the complaints levied at King George.

    “He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.”

    I would argue that while congress has the power to raise armies, they do not have to power to do so by effectively forcing citizens at gun point to join those armies.
    Our Second Amendment is a States' right.

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
    N.Y. MIL. LAW § 2 : NY Code - Section 2: Militia of the state; division and composition

    1. The militia of the state shall be divided into the organized militia, the state reserve list, the state retired list and the unorganized militia. The organized militia shall be composed of the New York army national guard; the New York air national guard; the inactive national guard; the New York naval militia; the New York guard whenever such a state force shall be duly organized and such additional forces as may be created by the governor. 2. The unorganized militia shall consist of all able-bodied male residents of the state between the ages of seventeen and forty-five who are not serving in any force of the organized militia or who are not on the state reserve list or the state retired list and who are or who have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States, subject, however, to such exemptions from military duty as are created by the laws of the United States. 3. The state reserve list and the state retired list shall include the persons who are lawfully carried thereon on the effective date of this act and such persons who may be transferred thereto or placed thereon by the governor in accordance with the provisions of this chapter. 4. The terms "organized militia," "all or any part of the organized militia," "organized militia or any part thereof" and "organized militia or any force thereof," whenever used in this chapter, unless a different meaning is plainly required by the context, shall be deemed to include any unit, command, component, element, headquarters, staff or cadre thereof as well as any member or members.

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    Our Second Amendment is a States' right.
    And? asdasd

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    If conscription is resorted to, the country is already lost. If a country devolves to the point where it forces its citizens to fight its wars, the country is no longer worth fighting for.

    Looking more specifically at the US, the reason there are threats of us having to fight in wars and force citiznes to participate is because we act as meddling aggressors around the globe, intervening in conflicts everywhere and creating our own. Maybe without the guarantee of an army to support this nonsense our government would pick its conflicts more carefully.

    Finally, the idea that the only way for a country to defend itself is through compulsory military service is absolute hogwash. If more soldiers are needed, hire mercenaries. Offer more incentives to join the military. It is a huge and unwarranted leap of logic to assume that no conscription will result in failure to preserve one's country.
    This is an extremely unconvincing line of argument for me. It smacks of an emotive hyperbole. I do not think the country was lost after the Civil War, after World War I, after World War II, etc. Do you? I return to my original and sole argument which is that on occasion it is sometimes in our wider interests (even if some disagree) to engage in conscription for specific purposes. I'd never claim it is anything other than a hypocritical position for me to take, but I'll still stake it out. On a practical level it clearly has utility and its comparison to enlistment incentives or mercenaries fails because of the palpable reality that historically conscription has been a more effective mechanism for mass mobilization in more trying or difficult times. When euphoria wears out and crisis draws in it tends to do its job. Is it the ideal course of action? No. But on a limited basis can I justify the violation of your rights to serve what I think is a greater purpose? Yes.

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    And? asdasd
    The domestic Tranquility of a State, is also a States' right pursuant to our Second Amendment.

    The unorganized militia shall consist of all able-bodied male residents of the state between the ages of seventeen and forty-five who are not serving in any force of the organized militia or who are not on the state reserve list or the state retired list and who are or who have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States, subject, however, to such exemptions from military duty as are created by the laws of the United States.

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