View Poll Results: Draft?

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  • Yes

    62 62.00%
  • No

    27 27.00%
  • Maybe/Not Sure

    8 8.00%
  • War is never the answer.

    3 3.00%
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Thread: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

  1. #221
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    You're just reading out of the traitor handbook now, aren't you?
    I don't even know where I would get one of those.

  2. #222
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Because government can do things that individual citizens cannot do.
    Thank you for succinctly summing up the foundational belief of statism. I couldn't have stated the essence of your religion any better myself.

  3. #223
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Why? How is your demands any different than the demands of anyone else? Why do people owe you payment for services you provide without their consent, but no one else is owed payment for services they provide people without their consent?
    Humanity's moral rituals aren't limited to consent. If they were, murderers would have to consent to be punished for their crimes. In some cases, passive acceptance of the prevailing norms serves as a suitable replacement.

    By your own admission, you were comfortable enough with the threat of being forced to do things without consenting to them to invest years of out of your life making a business (under the protective influence of the body politic) as opposed to simply running away or fighting it. Other members of the body politic will read those actions as a justifiable pretense to demanding services from you.

    In contrast, if you had instead invested every ounce of your energy to dissolving the protective influence of the body politic and replacing it with your vision of moral social relations (in this example, presumably by peaceful means, as with most anarchists), people might still try to force you to serve -- but they would have far less justification in doing so, since the body politic was an inconvenience from which you benefited very little.

    All things can be aggressed upon and can be destroyed without proper protection. Let us change the argument then. Lets say I was part of a band of mercenaries and decided that I would provide my services to you and demand payment from you for this services. I never asked you if you agreed to my protection nor did I show any sort of inclination to care of any objection that you might have given. I simply decided that you will have my protection and I will have my payment in exchange for it. If you fail to pay me then I will throw you into my dungeon with other men that have been starved of female companionship for far to long. Sound familiar yet?
    The body politic and racketeering outfits have a strong family resemblance (both organized responses to adversarial social relations). In some cases, a racketeering outfit becomes the body politic and vice versa, as with the Taliban as an example of the latter (although the Taliban is also an example of the sort of government that emerges from an anarchy). It's a slippery slope between public service and tyranny. But political society exists because successive generations of humans encountered the challenges of the world (and their own nature), challenges the body politic provided solutions for. Thus those generations were comfortable leaving the body politic intact for their children to inherit. In contrast, racketeering outfits create the problems they offer to solve, and tend to be resisted with all the legal resources a civilization can muster.

    Any government of course creates some of the problems it tries to solve (or at least play some kind of role in creating them), but its reign remains legitimate as long as specific conditions are met. The most basic being (1) it respects the right of the body politic to make amendments to its constitution and administration and (2) does not create more problems than it solves. In the first case, nobody has a right to try and dissolve or amend it except peacefully. In the event it falls short in the second case, anybody has a right to dissolve or amend either through peace or violence, regardless of whether the body politic approves or not.

    If you force me into your ranks you will have another gun, that much is true, but you will also have introduced an element into your ranks that doesn't care for the group and will always be looking for a chance to kill the commanding officers if the chance presents itself. It is up to you to decide if that makes you stronger or weaker.
    Nobody can force anarchists to be loyal, but they enjoyed their lands and possessions thanks to the protective influence of the body politic, and were allowed to benefit under the expectation that they were contributors, like everyone else. In war, the body politic has to make them contribute in some way; as an example to others, if nothing else.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

  4. #224
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Well that is an interesting concept as it argues that the state has rights. What if the draft is for something like the war in Iraq or any other number of military adventures that don't actually increase the security of the country? Are drafts OK then? As an anarchist, I say no, the state does not have the right to force me into its armed forces.
    No American was ever drafted to go to the Iraq war or the tangential offensive military action in Afghanistan against our enemies.
    It was a volunteer force defending our people.

    WWI, WWII, Vietnam... totally different story.
    Last edited by Muhammed; 12-04-13 at 11:46 PM.

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    It isn't involuntary servitude but a civil obligation to the defense of the State; our Second Amendment is quite clear on that.
    your inability to understand that the bill of rights merely prevents the government from acting is incredible



  6. #226
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I don't even know where I would get one of those.
    I think it was drafted Saul Alinsky and edited by Obama's former Pastor



  7. #227
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    No American was ever drafted to go to the Iraq war. It was a volunteer force.

    WWI, WWII, Vietnam... totally different story.
    I never said they were. Please read more carefully.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I never said they were. Please read more carefully.
    Yes I know. I never said you did. I just thought I'd make that perfectly clear to others in the forum. The USA did not draft any slaves to fight in the Iraq war.

    That is a very distinct difference between the major political parties in the USA on the federal level. The Democrats have always supported slavery and the Republicans have always been opposed to it.

  9. #229
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    That's your choice.

    Lots of people who have made that choice ended up behind bars.

    Many went to Canada, but kissed the ground when they were given amnesty and were able to come home.

  10. #230
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    At a certain point if the government is going to claim they govern by consent they should actually offer a chance to provide it. Otherwise, it's just a government based on political slavery just like all other governments that came before it and no more worthy of governance than they were.

    It really makes no difference if the governance provides people with benefits if those people never consented to the governance or to the benefits that are being provided. They are no more worthy of consideration than any other person or body of persons that provide people services without their consent. They are no more deservant of payment or service as anyone else you never consented to do business with.



    I have no reason to move out of my home because a body of people that I never consented to offered me a choice regardless of what that choice might be.


    Someone in your family certainly did, unless you are Native American, and you are bound by their choice...Otherwise, Uncle Fidel would gladly offer you a new home...

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