View Poll Results: Draft?

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  • Yes

    62 62.00%
  • No

    27 27.00%
  • Maybe/Not Sure

    8 8.00%
  • War is never the answer.

    3 3.00%
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Thread: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

  1. #161
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    You're saying you have a right to kill people based on the social organization you think you deserve (whether you put effort into creating it or not), rather than the one you share with others in reality.

    Not everyone has the luxury of that kind of self-importance.
    you don't read what I wrote very well

    I said free men do not have to be forced into involuntary servitude and if so forced, they have the moral authority to kill those who would enslave them



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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    In the case of Israel, it certainly seems to have fueled political awareness and ingrained a sense of having skin in the game
    Countries that have a draft have a tendency to be more nationalistic minded for the simple reason they instill blind support for the government in their people.

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    You wouldn't have had the problem at all if you hadn't made free use of the safety and economic assurance provided by the collective might of the body politic. You might kill me, but there is no doubt I was justified in driving you away.
    I never asked for it, so I never had the obligation to support it, be that with my property or my life. Since you felt compelled to force me into service for you I am obligated to kill you to secure my own person and it's facilities.

  4. #164
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I never asked for it, so I never had the obligation to support it, be that with my property or my life. Since you felt compelled to force me into service for you I am obligated to kill you to secure my own person and it's facilities.
    Interesting religion you have where you can freely make use of the benefits of citizenship and sacrifices others made to maintain it and the body politic, but are party to none of the responsibilities and can murder anyone who might hold you accountable for it. I can't take away your metaphysical ability to exercise freedom of conscience, but of the two of us I have no doubt I've made the stronger arguments.

    you don't read what I wrote very well

    I said free men do not have to be forced into involuntary servitude and if so forced, they have the moral authority to kill those who would enslave them
    I read it fine. I just interpreted as childishly egocentric.

    "You" don't know anything about slavery except what you've read in books.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 12-03-13 at 05:49 PM.
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Interesting religion you have where you can freely make use of the benefits of citizenship and sacrifices others made to maintain it and the body politic, but are party to none of the responsibilities and can murder anyone who might hold you accountable for it. I can't take away your metaphysical ability to exercise freedom of conscience, but of the two of us I have no doubt I've made the stronger arguments.
    the benefits of citizenship are not advanced by invading other countries. none of the wars we have entered since WWII was "necessary". and some-like Vietnam-should have resulted in hanging a bunch of politicians for not allowing the war to be won



  6. #166
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the benefits of citizenship are not advanced by invading other countries. none of the wars we have entered since WWII was "necessary". and some-like Vietnam-should have resulted in hanging a bunch of politicians for not allowing the war to be won
    I'm not talking about any specific wars, and if I drafted people to fight in Iraq it would only be so every part of society can "feel" the foolishness of getting involved with such conflicts, to discourage them from getting involved in such conflicts again in the future -- as opposed to simply "hearing" about it from the news, which doesn't seem to be good enough. I hate the idea and wish the electorate would realize the foolishness of such engagements based on the merit of the idea alone, but its better than demanding our professional soldiers go through 3-7 tours of duty while the rest of society lives in a bubble.

    With ICBM technology reaching the point where nuclear stockpiles may no longer pose an inter-continental threat and Earth's resources scheduled to run out in a few hundred years, the time may be approaching when old-fashioned global wars may again become the norm in order to protect our way of life. I certainly hope that isn't the case, but North America is resource rich, with a comparatively low population. Our country may excite the envy of regions of the world with larger populations who are more quickly depleting their resource reserves. Again, technological advancements and improvements in recycling may offset some of this, but there are no guarantees.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Interesting religion you have where you can freely make use of the benefits of citizenship and sacrifices others made to maintain it and the body politic, but are party to none of the responsibilities and can murder anyone who might hold you accountable for it. I can't take away your metaphysical ability to exercise freedom of conscience, but of the two of us I have no doubt I've made the stronger arguments.
    Do I have an obligation to pay someone that provides me services that I never asked to receive? If I mowed your law without your consent and demanded you pay me in return for the services that I provided you do you feel you have obligation to pay me? If a homeless man cleans your windshield without your consent and demands payment do you feel compelled to pay him for the service that he has provided you? It is no different for government when they provide me services that I never asked to receive. It makes no difference to me if you sacrifice yourself to provide me services that I never asked for, as the fact will remain that I never asked for them and have no obligation to pay you in kind for them. If this bothers you perhaps you should make it a habit to ask if I want services to begin with. If you threaten me with violence and I feel compelled, then yes, I will kill you. Your death could have been easily avoided by just leaving me be.

  8. #168
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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    I'm not talking about any specific wars, and if I drafted people to fight in Iraq it would only be so every part of society can "feel" the foolishness of getting involved with such conflicts, to discourage them from getting involved in such conflicts again in the future -- as opposed to simply "hearing" about it from the news, which doesn't seem to be good enough. I hate the idea and wish the electorate would realize the foolishness of such engagements based on the merit of the idea alone, but its better than demanding our professional soldiers go through 3-7 tours of duty while the rest of society lives in a bubble.
    Draft exemptions invariably exempt the wealthy and powerful, who are exactly the people who make the decision to go to war in the first place.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Draft exemptions invariably exempt the wealthy and powerful, who are exactly the people who make the decision to go to war in the first place.
    "I had other priorities in the sixties than military service."
    -Dick Cheney

    So in other words NO. Luckily, the US is not running low on patriotic psychos to fill the military with

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    Re: Does a Country have the right to the draft during a time of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Do I have an obligation to pay someone that provides me services that I never asked to receive? If I mowed your law without your consent and demanded you pay me in return for the services that I provided you do you feel you have obligation to pay me? If a homeless man cleans your windshield without your consent and demands payment do you feel compelled to pay him for the service that he has provided you? It is no different for government when they provide me services that I never asked to receive. It makes no difference to me if you sacrifice yourself to provide me services that I never asked for, as the fact will remain that I never asked for them and have no obligation to pay you in kind for them. If this bothers you perhaps you should make it a habit to ask if I want services to begin with. If you threaten me with violence and I feel compelled, then yes, I will kill you. Your death could have been easily avoided by just leaving me be.
    By my arguments, yes, you do.

    If a homeless man cleans your windshield without your consent and demands payment do you feel compelled to pay him for the service that he has provided you?
    The example isn't comparable, although it would be decent to pay him something since he is trying to show he has the will to work and such impulses ought to be rewarded. If he was provided the necessary direction, he might be educated to be something more than just a homeless man. Anyway, your car or its wind shield won't cease to exist if the homeless man doesn't wash it. Property without the security of the body politic is just a material object waiting for somebody stronger to come and take it.

    If you threaten me with violence and I feel compelled, then yes, I will kill you. Your death could have been easily avoided by just leaving me be.
    If I leave you be, then the outsiders who are interested in our property and lands will *know* our country is populated by people who may not necessarily contribute to the defense and a body politic that isn't willing to make them. It's precisely for such reasons why a country with strong national organization like Denmark was able to dominate its more libertarian neighbors (like Norway) during the Dark Ages. That means that myself, my family, friends, and community may be conquered and our lives and futures made tertiary to interest of a foreign power, like the dominions of the British Empire were tertiary those of England (and suffered because of it).

    The consequences to the things and people I cherish are far too high to risk "leaving you be."
    Last edited by Morality Games; 12-03-13 at 07:09 PM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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