View Poll Results: How should we leave Afghanistan?

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  • Declare victory over OBL and evacuate!

    8 53.33%
  • Just evacuate!

    6 40.00%
  • Leave 50,000 troops to do something in Afghanistan!

    2 13.33%
  • Charge Energy Corporations for pipeline protection for any troops left!

    2 13.33%
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Thread: Can Karzai Save Us?

  1. #1
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    Can Karzai Save Us?

    Ron Paul: Can Karzai Save Us?
    Can Karzai Save Us?

    By Ron Paul
    November 30, 2013 "Information Clearing House - After a year of talks over the post-2014 US military presence in Afghanistan, the US administration announced last week that a new agreement had finally been reached. Under the deal worked out with Afghan President Hamid Karzai, the US would keep thousands of troops on nine military bases for at least the next ten years.

    It is clear that the Obama Administration badly wants this deal. Karzai, sensing this, even demanded that the US president send a personal letter promising that the US would respect the dignity of the Afghan people if it were allowed to remain in the country. It was strange to see the US president go to such lengths for a deal that would mean billions more US dollars to Karzai and his cronies, and a US military that would continue to prop up the regime in Kabul.

    Just as the deal was announced by Secretary of State John Kerry and ready to sign, however, Karzai did an abrupt about-face. No signed deal until after the next presidential elections in the spring, he announced to a gathering of tribal elders, much to the further embarrassment and dismay of the US side. The US administration had demanded a signed deal by December. What may happen next is anybody’s guess. The US threatens to pull out completely if the deal is not signed by the end of this year.

    Karzai should be wary of his actions. It may become unhealthy for him. The US has a bad reputation for not looking kindly on puppet dictators who demand independence from us.

    Yet Karzai’s behavior may have the unintended benefit of saving the US government from its own worst interventionist instincts. The US desire to continue its military presence in Afghanistan – with up to 10,000 troops – is largely about keeping up the false impression that the Afghan war, the longest in US history, has not been a total, catastrophic failure. Maintaining a heavy US presence delays that realization, and with it the inevitable conclusion that so many lives have been lost and wasted in vain. It is a bitter pill that this president, who called Afghanistan “the good war,” would rather not have to swallow.

    The administration has argued that US troops must remain in Afghanistan to continue the fight against al-Qaeda. But al-Qaeda has virtually disappeared from Afghanistan. What remains is the Taliban and the various tribes that have been involved in a power struggle ever since the Soviets left almost a quarter of a century ago. In other words, twelve years later we are back to the starting point in Afghanistan.

    Where has al-Qaeda gone if not in Afghanistan? They have branched out to other areas where opportunity has been provided by US intervention. Iraq had no al-Qaeda presence before the 2003 US invasion. Now al-Qaeda and its affiliates have turned Iraq into a bloodbath, where thousands are killed and wounded every month. The latest fertile ground for al-Qaeda and its allies is Syria, where they have found that US support, weapons, and intelligence is going to their side in the ongoing war to overthrow the Syrian government.

    In fact, much of the US government’s desire for an ongoing military presence in Afghanistan has to do with keeping money flowing to the military industrial complex. Maintaining nine US military bases in Afghanistan and providing military aid and training to Afghan forces will consume billions of dollars over the next decade. The military contractors are all too willing to continue to enrich themselves at the expense of the productive sectors of the US economy.

    Addressing Afghan tribal elders last week, Karzai is reported to have expressed disappointment with US assistance thus far: “I demand tanks from them, and they give us pickup trucks, which I can get myself from Japan… I don’t trust the U.S., and the U.S. doesn’t trust me.”

    Let us hope that Karzai sticks to his game with Washington. Let the Obama administration have no choice but to walk away from this twelve-year nightmare. Then we can finally just march out.




    Ron Paul: Can Karzai Save Us?

    Did we win when we killed OBL?

    If we leave, does the record 9,000 ton Opium crop go back to PreUSA 290 ton levels?

    Is Karzai nuts?

    Are the Taliban good guys or bad guys?

    Are we good guys or bad guys?

    Will there be a blood bath if we leave?

    Do we need to stay to protect the pipeline route? (Moldova, Georgia, Azerbajan sp, Afghanistan)





  2. #2
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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    We are going to need a base of operations, in the area, for the never ending 'war on terror' so it may as well be there.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    I'll be very interested to see how other respond to this. To me it shows that the Obama regime is just as corrupt as the Bush regime, concerned with spending our tax dollars to accomplish....what?

    Well, it's good news for heroin addicts that the price of smack will stay stable, since most of that opium crop is headed for the US markets. Why, gosh, they're protecting us from inflation. That's real partnership.

    Sigh©

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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    I'll be very interested to see how other respond to this. To me it shows that the Obama regime is just as corrupt as the Bush regime, concerned with spending our tax dollars to accomplish....what?

    Well, it's good news for heroin addicts that the price of smack will stay stable, since most of that opium crop is headed for the US markets. Why, gosh, they're protecting us from inflation. That's real partnership.

    Sigh©
    Excellent point! Perhaps Big Corporate Pharma should pay for any residual involvement by USA forces. Perhaps they could share the costs with Big Corporate Energy.

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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    I was for going into Afghanistan and destroying terrorist training bases and making the Taliban suffer so they would think long and hard about letting Alquiada back in. I never was for the nation building fiasco though. Absolutely no offense to all you guys that served there though, you have my utmost respect.

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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    I understand why we went to Afghanistan. I supported it. I wish someone would give me a good reason why we stay.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    We are going to need a base of operations, in the area, for the never ending 'war on terror' so it may as well be there.
    I personally think that we are the "Terror War" and that it is a construct of the Military/Industrial/Corporate complex as a marketing promotion to maintain/enhance weapon sales. "War is good business," and business is good, USA style.

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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I was for going into Afghanistan and destroying terrorist training bases and making the Taliban suffer so they would think long and hard about letting Alquiada back in. I never was for the nation building fiasco though. Absolutely no offense to all you guys that served there though, you have my utmost respect.
    I don't know -- I have to admit, I think the American aversion to nation-building is misguided. If you're going to invade and destroy a country, you need to build it back up afterwards, or you've just caused yourself a headache further down the pipeline.

    Britain's had quite a few successful nation-building experiences, and I'm sure the US could do the same.

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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    1) I understand why we went to Afghanistan. 2) I supported it. I wish someone would give me a good reason why we stay.
    1) I do not and 2) I did not. The 911 terrorist crew were from Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Yemen. The only connection to Afghanistan was the use of a few "training camps" in that third world, lawless nation. That situation exists in virtually all of the Muslim world and we would be fools to attempt to use military force to try to "build nations" friendly to us in any of them.

    Why do we send thousands of US troops to Afghanistan yet not do so in Mexico? The Mexican drug cartels, with their numerous "training camps" in that nation, kill far more US citizens than the Muslim terrorists ever will. Mexico also has an official policy to not allow US extradition of these criminals, thus Mexico is a state sponsor of crime (terrorism?), while enjoying the massive influx of narco-terrorist money.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 12-01-13 at 10:51 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    1) I do not and 2) I did not. The 911 terrorist crew were from Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Yemen. The only connection to Afghanistan was the use of a few "training camps" in that third world, lawless nation. That situation exists in virtually all of the Muslim world and we would be fools to attempt to use military force to try to "build nations" friendly to us in any of them.

    Why do we send thousands of US troops to Afghanistan yet not do so in Mexico? The Mexican drug cartels, with their numerous "training camps" in that nation, kill far more US citizens than the Muslim terrorists ever will. Mexico also has an official policy to not allow US extradition of these criminals, thus Mexico is a state sponsor of crime (terrorism?), while enjoying the massive influx of narco-terrorist money.
    Here's the way I saw it at the time. Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11 and he was in Afghanistan. I would have supported any means necessary to get him, including nuclear. Gradually mission creep transfered the enemy to the Taliban. I think that as a group, the Taliban are awful people but in my mind the singular mission in Afghanistan was to get Bin Laden and the Taliban only posed a threat to works of art and Afghan women, not American interests.

    I don't see an end game in Afghanistan other than our leaving and the Afghan people bending to the will of who ever fills the power vacuum. I see no pressing national interest in our remaining there. When we leave, Karzai is a dead man. Sooner the better.

    With respect to Mexico, since you brought it up, I would be fine with sending troops now in Afghanistan to the border. Going into Mexico, not so much. There is a constitutional mandate to protect our borders.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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