View Poll Results: How should we leave Afghanistan?

Voters
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  • Declare victory over OBL and evacuate!

    8 53.33%
  • Just evacuate!

    6 40.00%
  • Leave 50,000 troops to do something in Afghanistan!

    2 13.33%
  • Charge Energy Corporations for pipeline protection for any troops left!

    2 13.33%
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Thread: Can Karzai Save Us?

  1. #11
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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    The deal is we are to sign on for 10 years and keep training them. Karzai wants to wait. But Rice just showed up and gave hima direct message from Obama. Either sign the paper or we will pull the plug on all of it. Aid too.

    I don't think we need to keep a base of operations in this part of region.....its not like the Iranians wouldn't know. What other reason than the appearance of being on all sides of Iran, now with the Obama deal and them?

    Karzai saves us if he doesn't sign that piece of paper. Only way.

  2. #12
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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Here's the way I saw it at the time. Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11 and he was in Afghanistan. I would have supported any means necessary to get him, including nuclear. Gradually mission creep transfered the enemy to the Taliban. I think that as a group, the Taliban are awful people but in my mind the singular mission in Afghanistan was to get Bin Laden and the Taliban only posed a threat to works of art and Afghan women, not American interests.

    I don't see an end game in Afghanistan other than our leaving and the Afghan people bending to the will of who ever fills the power vacuum. I see no pressing national interest in our remaining there. When we leave, Karzai is a dead man. Sooner the better.

    With respect to Mexico, since you brought it up, I would be fine with sending troops now in Afghanistan to the border. Going into Mexico, not so much. There is a constitutional mandate to protect our borders.
    Are you kidding me? You honestly think that a proper mission of the US military is to "get" a criminal in a foreign land? Why not send the military after the cartel bosses in Mexico?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #13
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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Are you kidding me? You honestly think that a proper mission of the US military is to "get" a criminal in a foreign land? Why not send the military after the cartel bosses in Mexico?
    No kidding. Bin Laden was more than a criminal. He was the mastermind of a terrorist organization who acted against American interests. I don't have the same opinion of the Mexican drug cartels. In truth, the war on drugs is a failure. I used to smoke pot in the 70's and I don't think that it's particularly good for individuals but I'm starting to believe that the war on drugs does as much harm to our society as drugs. Make pot legal and the cartels loose their power. Tax the crap out of pot and move taxes in general to where I think they should be anyway, consumption.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  4. #14
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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Are you kidding me? You honestly think that a proper mission of the US military is to "get" a criminal in a foreign land? Why not send the military after the cartel bosses in Mexico?
    I will address the point made earlier. The Taliban production of "Opium" was 270-290 tons per year in Afghanistan in 2002. We have been in charge since 2003 and "Opium" production has burgeoned to 9000+ tons per year under our stewardship. Despite loud denials by USA officials, this means the USA supports this business. Now, if we are surreptitiously supporting a drug business in Afghanistan, would we also be surreptitiously supporting a drug business in Mexico. After all, a drug war is good for the Military/Industrial/Corporate complex to gin up weapons to "fight" the drug war, and the terror war, and the militarization of USA police Forces. Promotion and marketing gin up "WARS" that need weapons. It's just good business.

  5. #15
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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I will address the point made earlier. The Taliban production of "Opium" was 270-290 tons per year in Afghanistan in 2002. We have been in charge since 2003 and "Opium" production has burgeoned to 9000+ tons per year under our stewardship. Despite loud denials by USA officials, this means the USA supports this business. Now, if we are surreptitiously supporting a drug business in Afghanistan, would we also be surreptitiously supporting a drug business in Mexico. After all, a drug war is good for the Military/Industrial/Corporate complex to gin up weapons to "fight" the drug war, and the terror war, and the militarization of USA police Forces. Promotion and marketing gin up "WARS" that need weapons. It's just good business.
    That's a good point. We turn our heads away from opium production in Afghanistan, primarily because while we have the ability to eradicate it, doing so would alienate too many Afghans and lord know we don't want to do that while we are fighting a war against them.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    6 DECADES later we still have over 25,000 troops in S. Korea. Might as well keep parking infantry divisions all over the world, right? After all, "infantry wins wars."

  7. #17
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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    6 DECADES later we still have over 25,000 troops in S. Korea. Might as well keep parking infantry divisions all over the world, right? After all, "infantry wins wars."
    Does exporting armies qualify as ginning up wars, or is that a stretch. I mean, defensive forces should be at home, don't you think?

  8. #18
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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    I understand why we went to Afghanistan. I supported it. I wish someone would give me a good reason why we stay.
    Amen. The initial incursion into Afghanistan was a master stroke in Unconventional Warfare. I believe it was the single operation that will illustrate the need for the US Army Special Forces (Green Berets) for the next 50 years. However, as soon as conventional forces began building up and the individual services began demanding a piece of the pie, it turned in to the standard fiasco that it always does all in the name of "jointness". Jointness, for those that haven't heard it, is another name for "let every branch of service in to theater so no one can claim they were left out of the war". I believe the SF guys, along with CIA paramilitary, did what needed to be done and should have been extracted as soon as the Northern Alliance looked to be on top. There was a point when we had them on our side and they were driving Al Qaeda out of the country. We should have left then. Instead, we built up and here we are.
    Further, I hope to God that Karzai doesn't sign any deal and we just pull out of there like we did Iraq. Sure, the GOP will probably stumble all over that again like they did during the last Presidential election (remember Romney criticizing Obama for no Iraqi SOFA?) but whatever. I value no servicemember ever having to deploy to that place again over some politician's talking points. Hopefully Karzai has some balls and signs nothing. I'm not betting on it.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  9. #19
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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    6 DECADES later we still have over 25,000 troops in S. Korea. Might as well keep parking infantry divisions all over the world, right? After all, "infantry wins wars."
    I love your "infantry wins wars" comment in spite of the fact that have yet to counter my latest points here: http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062602492. Keep your very elementary (elementary in generous) comments about warfare to yourself and instead comment on the political ramifications of keeping troops there. We can all have an opinion on that as politics obviously require no real experience (see current POTUS) and instead an ability to articulate one's thoughts in a capable manner. Can you do that capably?
    Last edited by MarineTpartier; 12-01-13 at 03:57 PM.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  10. #20
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    Re: Can Karzai Save Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    That's a good point. We turn our heads away from opium production in Afghanistan, primarily because while we have the ability to eradicate it, doing so would alienate too many Afghans and lord know we don't want to do that while we are fighting a war against them.
    The only effort made against that was the "suggestion" that they grow wheat instead. Most people don't know that members of the Dept of Agriculture have been deployed over there numerous times, to no avail. We need to do one of two things. A) Leave or B) Burn every single poppy field we find and replace it (free of charge) with wheat. We either get serious about winning or leave. There's no reason to go halfway on this thing.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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