View Poll Results: Would You Surrender Your Firearms To Police Voluntarily During A Natural Disaster?

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    92 86.79%
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Thread: Would You Surrender Your Firearms To Police Voluntarily During A Natural Disaster?

  1. #211
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    Re: Would You Surrender Your Firearms To Police Voluntarily During A Natural Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    We havent done ANY of it at the same time. Complex problems require complex solutions. Thats part of our problem with the whole immigration thing. We arent really trying to FIX anything...just running around sticking fingers in dykes.
    yes, you have that right, especially if by "we" you mean Congress and/or the federal government. That entity is dysfunctional.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    And I completely disagree with you about the prison thing. Whole I think we both would agree drug laws should be revamped and prison probably isnt the appropriate place for drug users, the fact remains (and is evidenced daily) that not only do we NOT have enough prisons, but we havent put enough people there. I dont give a **** about the numbers and am frankly a little curious as to why YOU do. It doesnt matter if there are 5 or 50 prisons in every state...the number of prisons does not CREATE violent criminals and there should be enough to HOUSE violent criminals and hellz YES...if those violent offenders were locked away for say...30 years on top of every sentence as a mandatory minimum for the use of a weapon in the commission of a violent crime, we would ABSOLUTELY see less violent crime in this country.
    The issue is cost. Keeping people locked up is expensive, any way you look at it. Now, if we could dump out the people who are there for drug offenses and replace them with violent offenders who need to be kept locked up for the protection of the rest of us, then I'd agree.

    What is the purpose of prisons? Is it to punish lawbreakers, to protect us from violent people, simply to make money for the prison industry, or perhaps all three? If it's to punish lawbreakers, there may be less expensive ways of accomplishing that. Protecting us from violent people is totally appropriate. Making money for the prison industry has become a de facto reason for building more prisons.

    and drug addiction needs to be seen as a medical problem, not a legal one.
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  2. #212
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    Re: Would You Surrender Your Firearms To Police Voluntarily During A Natural Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    yes, you have that right, especially if by "we" you mean Congress and/or the federal government. That entity is dysfunctional.



    The issue is cost. Keeping people locked up is expensive, any way you look at it. Now, if we could dump out the people who are there for drug offenses and replace them with violent offenders who need to be kept locked up for the protection of the rest of us, then I'd agree.

    What is the purpose of prisons? Is it to punish lawbreakers, to protect us from violent people, simply to make money for the prison industry, or perhaps all three? If it's to punish lawbreakers, there may be less expensive ways of accomplishing that. Protecting us from violent people is totally appropriate. Making money for the prison industry has become a de facto reason for building more prisons.

    and drug addiction needs to be seen as a medical problem, not a legal one.
    We agree on the whole prison for drug users thing. Thats not relevant. The problem is violent criminals. Clear out the drug users (keep those in for committing crimes like DUI, theft to get drugs, etc) but put violent offenders away for extraordinarily long periods of time. That, coupled with real economic opportunity, WILL make a difference.

  3. #213
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    Re: Would You Surrender Your Firearms To Police Voluntarily During A Natural Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    We agree on the whole prison for drug users thing. Thats not relevant. The problem is violent criminals. Clear out the drug users (keep those in for committing crimes like DUI, theft to get drugs, etc) but put violent offenders away for extraordinarily long periods of time. That, coupled with real economic opportunity, WILL make a difference.
    Yes, you have it mostly right. Building more prisons is just an expensive boondoggle, but do what you just suggested, and we'll have a lot less violent crime.
    As for theft to obtain drugs, a shorter term that involved learning to work, along with learning a new trade, would serve us better.

    If drugs were legalized, then few would steal to support a drug habit.

    As for DUI, take away their license. If they continue to drive, take away their vehicles. The goal has to be to keep them off the road, not to keep them locked up at public expense.
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  4. #214
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    Re: Would You Surrender Your Firearms To Police Voluntarily During A Natural Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, you have it mostly right. Building more prisons is just an expensive boondoggle, but do what you just suggested, and we'll have a lot less violent crime.
    As for theft to obtain drugs, a shorter term that involved learning to work, along with learning a new trade, would serve us better.

    If drugs were legalized, then few would steal to support a drug habit.

    As for DUI, take away their license. If they continue to drive, take away their vehicles. The goal has to be to keep them off the road, not to keep them locked up at public expense.
    Not so...unless of course you plan on making drugs available and free. People dont steal because drugs are illegal, they steal to get money to buy more drugs. And dont blame cost...cost is lower with an illegal market than it would be with a legal market.

    Sorry...I dont give free passes. DUI should not involve a slap on the wrist. Putting peoples lives at risk demonstrates as great a threat to society as does willfully committing a violent act. (9,878 people killed in total in 2011, In 2007, nearly 13,000 people were killed in drunk driving related crashes, each year, approximately half a million people are injured in crashes where police reported that alcohol was present). Considering the repeat offender rate and that fines are already high, slaps on the wrist just dont cut it.

  5. #215
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    Re: Would You Surrender Your Firearms To Police Voluntarily During A Natural Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Not so...unless of course you plan on making drugs available and free. People dont steal because drugs are illegal, they steal to get money to buy more drugs. And dont blame cost...cost is lower with an illegal market than it would be with a legal market.

    Sorry...I dont give free passes. DUI should not involve a slap on the wrist. Putting peoples lives at risk demonstrates as great a threat to society as does willfully committing a violent act. (9,878 people killed in total in 2011, In 2007, nearly 13,000 people were killed in drunk driving related crashes, each year, approximately half a million people are injured in crashes where police reported that alcohol was present). Considering the repeat offender rate and that fines are already high, slaps on the wrist just dont cut it.
    Drugs would be more expensive if they were legalized? No, I don't think so. Compare the cost of a pack of smokes, for example, with the cost of a like number of doobies. They would be a lot cheaper unless, of course, prohibitively high taxes were imposed.

    As for drunk drivers, sure, they need to be punished. They also need to be taken off of the road. Isn't there a less expensive way of doing this than putting them in jail for long prison sentences?
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  6. #216
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    Re: Would You Surrender Your Firearms To Police Voluntarily During A Natural Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Drugs would be more expensive if they were legalized? No, I don't think so. Compare the cost of a pack of smokes, for example, with the cost of a like number of doobies. They would be a lot cheaper unless, of course, prohibitively high taxes were imposed.

    As for drunk drivers, sure, they need to be punished. They also need to be taken off of the road. Isn't there a less expensive way of doing this than putting them in jail for long prison sentences?
    People can score drugs cheaply today. Its not the cost that is the problem...it is that addicts typically cant hold down jobs to pay for their addiction.

    OK...how about boot camp for DUI offenders, and anyone that skips out can then go spend time with the playmates at the big boy prison. Deal?

  7. #217
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    Re: Would You Surrender Your Firearms To Police Voluntarily During A Natural Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    People can score drugs cheaply today. Its not the cost that is the problem...it is that addicts typically cant hold down jobs to pay for their addiction.

    OK...how about boot camp for DUI offenders, and anyone that skips out can then go spend time with the playmates at the big boy prison. Deal?
    Deal.

    How about not categorizing drugs as we do now?

    The drugs that keep people from holding down jobs would be perhaps crack (unless you're the mayor of Toronto, of course) or meth, the really bad stuff. I'd be for allowing them to have their drugs cheaply (surely, they could be manufactured at low cost, were it legal to do so) under medical supervision, with the proviso that they can opt for rehab if they want to. If they don't want to, then rehab won't work anyway, but then, neither will prison.
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  8. #218
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    Re: Would You Surrender Your Firearms To Police Voluntarily During A Natural Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Deal.

    How about not categorizing drugs as we do now?

    The drugs that keep people from holding down jobs would be perhaps crack (unless you're the mayor of Toronto, of course) or meth, the really bad stuff. I'd be for allowing them to have their drugs cheaply (surely, they could be manufactured at low cost, were it legal to do so) under medical supervision, with the proviso that they can opt for rehab if they want to. If they don't want to, then rehab won't work anyway, but then, neither will prison.
    Wait...you are for not only legally allowing people to do drugs but also for subsidizing them...the only way they can "have their drugs cheaply"????????????

  9. #219
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    Re: Would You Surrender Your Firearms To Police Voluntarily During A Natural Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Wait...you are for not only legally allowing people to do drugs but also for subsidizing them...the only way they can "have their drugs cheaply"????????????
    I don't think they would have to be subsidized. I think they could be produced pretty cheaply if they didn't have to be underground. How much does an aspirin really cost, anything, in fact, that isn't a proprietary medication but can be had in a generic.
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  10. #220
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    Re: Would You Surrender Your Firearms To Police Voluntarily During A Natural Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I don't think they would have to be subsidized. I think they could be produced pretty cheaply if they didn't have to be underground. How much does an aspirin really cost, anything, in fact, that isn't a proprietary medication but can be had in a generic.
    Cigarettes hardly cost anything to 'produce'...but they still cost...what...5-6 bucks a pack these days?

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