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Wait staff, tipping, and Minimum Wage

Should Tipping be figured into a wait staff wage?


  • Total voters
    46
I will tell you what will happen... service will suck. Service sucks in most of Europe, Australia and New Zealand. There is no competition among servers. Servers don't know anything about the menu, the wines and wait times after ordering can be horrendous.

Like any other job, employees put in what they get out. Go to a high end restaurant in Paris, where the waits are well paid, and you'll get very good service (so long as you speak French, of course). Go somewhere they're over worked and paid crap, and you won't. You know, just like every other job.

I don't know if it would be better or worse for waits, but the service would be just like now . . . you get what you pay for. Except it would be a flat rate that you pay in the bill, with the servers getting paid a higher salary, instead of you deciding how much to pay at the table. If you think about it, for those of us who tip well for good service, every time someone stiffs or leaves a crap tip, they're essentially stealing part of our tip from us. They pay less, we pay more . . . same service.

Anyway, I have no opinion on the matter because it doesn't affect me and I have no idea how the economics would work out for those who it would affect. But that idea that workers won't produce according to pay but only in certain industries seems a bit flawed. I don't get tips. Yet I do a pretty good job. In no small part because I get a very high salary, instead.

And no, I wouldn't trade that for a tip-based system.
 
Like any other job, employees put in what they get out. Go to a high end restaurant in Paris, where the waits are well paid, and you'll get very good service (so long as you speak French, of course). Go somewhere they're over worked and paid crap, and you won't. You know, just like every other job.

I don't know if it would be better or worse for waits, but the service would be just like now . . . you get what you pay for. Except it would be a flat rate that you pay in the bill, with the servers getting paid a higher salary, instead of you deciding how much to pay at the table. If you think about it, for those of us who tip well for good service, every time someone stiffs or leaves a crap tip, they're essentially stealing part of our tip from us. They pay less, we pay more . . . same service.

Anyway, I have no opinion on the matter because it doesn't affect me and I have no idea how the economics would work out for those who it would affect. But that idea that workers won't produce according to pay but only in certain industries seems a bit flawed. I don't get tips. Yet I do a pretty good job. In no small part because I get a very high salary, instead.

And no, I wouldn't trade that for a tip-based system.

Basically what I stated in another post. To maintain the same service standards waiters would have to be paid more meaning the cost of food/wine would rise as a result.
 
When's the last time you saw a postal employee hustle when the line's long? The people behind the deli counter do the same? No, the TIPS system we have for waitstaff works. The good ones make pretty good money; the bad ones make such a poor living, they either get better? Or quit.
Yes and no. You're point is good, and I agree with it. But it's only one side of the story.

It does work for motivation, to an extent. The flip side is that tipping has evolved into an entitlement mentality. Even bad servers expect... virtually demand... good tips. Bad servers delude themselves into thinking they "deserve" good tips because of their crappy wages*.

Too many customers now either don't know what is appropriate to tip or they overcompensate to the point that some feel 20%+ is "minimum" even for bad service. 20%+?!? As a minimum? Think about that. It's absurd.**

Generally, the only people who say "it works" are those who rely on tips, and even then only because they know they get more overall with low wages and tips than they'd get with minimum wage and no tips. Even with that, they still whine about the odd person who stiffs them, and willfully ignore the bigger picture. It's a major clusterfluke for everybody else involved.

No, it doesn't really 'work'. To work, it has to work for both sides.

*- I believe minimum wage should prevail for even tipped employees, but that's another point for another post.
**-I often tip more than 20%, but it shouldn't be considered a minimum.



Why do car salesmen get paid on commission? Realtors? Door-to-door salespeople? Why do some factories pay bonuses on piecework? Carpet and furniture salespeople? Tech firms? Money motivates.
Most of these examples are also industries that have poor reputations for lying and deception. Sure, money motivates, especially when they know the likelihood of ever seeing you as a customer again, even if you are happy, is virtually zero.
 
If it clearly posted and I still eat their I won't argue unless the waiter was just flat out rude and didn't care ( was only happen once) but I will argue and fight it if it isn't clear marked and they trying to sneak on it on to the bill. I personally believe tips should not be a automatic thing but should be earned.
I agree.

I usually only come across this when I dine in large groups.

If they tack on a per-determined percentage as a so-called gratuity, I'll pay it. I won't like it, as it completely negates the very premise of a gratuity, but I'll pay it.

I will not, however, pay one cent more. The service may have been stellar. Doesn't matter. If you (read: establishment) are rude enough to tell me what the gratuity will be, the that's what you'll get. Sometimes the server will skate because the service wasn't good, though that's rare, but more often the server loses out because I probably would have left more.
 
Agreed. Minimum wage should be universal. All laws that make it lower for wait staff need to be repealed
 
It takes me back to what Maggie said. If I have to tip 25% for respectable service, why in the f'n hell would I even want to go back?
Key phrase: "have to".

I have to agree with this sentiment. It's indicative of how far the entitlement mentality has crept in.
 
I'm all for paying all people a starvation wage and have them rely on tips to obtain a livable wage. I can't see why this shouldn't apply to all employees. If a bank manager or a managing director of a multi-billion dollar enterprise gives good service by all means leave them a tip commensurate with the service. If the Bubbalonia government hadn't left a tip, instead of tipping the banks trillions of dollars for their pathetic performance and blatant theft of the customer's wallet a few years ago, they would have tried a lot harder to please instead of ripping Americans off even worse.

Try naming some jobs where customer service is 100% of the job. You won't look so foolish.
 
Agreed. Minimum wage should be universal. All laws that make it lower for wait staff need to be repealed

Um...you do realize that if a tipped position doesn't receive enough tips to bring the employee up to normal FMW, the employer has to provide the difference, right?

There are no laws being broken.
 
Um...you do realize that if a tipped position doesn't receive enough tips to bring the employee up to normal FMW, the employer has to provide the difference, right?

There are no laws being broken.

Either way. Minimum wage should be the same, regardless of how many tips one gets
 
I get paid minimum wage plus tips and they are a nice bonus but then again I am a barista.
 
Either way. Minimum wage should be the same, regardless of how many tips one gets

It is the same, for all intents and purposes.

If anything, they should do away with the MW for tipped positions. It essentially serves no purpose.
 
It is the same, for all intents and purposes.

If anything, they should do away with the MW for tipped positions. It essentially serves no purpose.

It isnt the same. You have workers making 4$ an hour.
 
I worked in Fine Dining... top end restaurants.

Santa Rosa Hotel | Wine Country Hotel | Sonoma Hotels

...and other restaurants.

I was one of the Head Servers. Waited on Dustin Hoffman, Donald Sutherland and other famous actors, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Fabio, Steven Segal, politicians, tons of professional athletes actually, wealthy business owners, corporate execs, musicians, etc.

I had one table one night... 18 people. I walked out with $600 dollars cash after tipping out. I worked as a bartender for a top end catering company in Laguna and Newport Beaches CA. Bartending to the rich and famous at their 10 million dollar plus homes sculpted into the cliffs over looking the Pacific Ocean... tough life I had. I would surf or mountain bike during the day, work the evenings and party the night. Repeat daily...

Most waitstaff don't have it so good.
 
I worked in Fine Dining... top end restaurants.

Santa Rosa Hotel | Wine Country Hotel | Sonoma Hotels

...and other restaurants.

I was one of the Head Servers. Waited on Dustin Hoffman, Donald Sutherland and other famous actors, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Fabio, Steven Segal, politicians, tons of professional athletes actually, wealthy business owners, corporate execs, musicians, etc.

I had one table one night... 18 people. I walked out with $600 dollars cash after tipping out. I worked as a bartender for a top end catering company in Laguna and Newport Beaches CA. Bartending to the rich and famous at their 10 million dollar plus homes sculpted into the cliffs over looking the Pacific Ocean... tough life I had. I would surf or mountain bike during the day, work the evenings and party the night. Repeat daily...

Did you have to grow a fancy moustache and speak with a French accent?
 
What? Explain how 4$ is equal to 7? There is no simple way to explain how 4 is equal to 7.

Say minimum wage is 7.50, which means that tipped employees will probably have a minimum wage of 3.75 (generally half). This means that the employer will probably pay 150 dollars a week in wages, assuming 40 hours. Normal wages would be 300 for non-tipped employees (7.50 x 40).

The employee makes 100 dollars in tips that week. This brings his total compensation to 250 for the week. The employer is required by law to pay the employee an additional 50 dollars - the difference between his current wage and tips, and the federally mandated minimum wage. Tip or untipped, he cannot have an employee that makes under the federal minimum wage (barring exceptions we won't get into here).

Now if we just got rid of a tipped position minimum wage, it doesn't matter. The employer would have to still pay 200 dollars to the employee, since he cannot make below FMW for that week. The tipped employee MW is completely useless and redundant.
 
Say minimum wage is 7.50, which means that tipped employees will probably have a minimum wage of 3.75 (generally half). This means that the employer will probably pay 150 dollars a week in wages, assuming 40 hours. Normal wages would be 300 for non-tipped employees (7.50 x 40).

The employee makes 100 dollars in tips that week. This brings his total compensation to 250 for the week. The employer is required by law to pay the employee an additional 50 dollars - the difference between his current wage and tips, and the federally mandated minimum wage. Tip or untipped, he cannot have an employee that makes under the federal minimum wage (barring exceptions we won't get into here).

Now if we just got rid of a tipped position minimum wage, it doesn't matter. The employer would have to still pay 200 dollars to the employee, since he cannot make below FMW for that week. The tipped employee MW is completely useless and redundant.

I think the minimum wage should be the same and gratuities should not be included in wages. Gratuities should be irrelevant and seperate from wages .
 
I think the minimum wage should be the same and gratuities should not be included in wages. Gratuities should be irrelevant and seperate from wages .

Yeah, have fun convincing the IRS that your earned income is "special" because it's a tip. They like to get chuckles at the expense of those people.
 
Yeah, have fun convincing the IRS that your earned income is "special" because it's a tip. They like to get chuckles at the expense of those people.

Are gifts taxed as well?

Btw, **** the irs
 
Yes and no. You're point is good, and I agree with it. But it's only one side of the story.

It does work for motivation, to an extent. The flip side is that tipping has evolved into an entitlement mentality. Even bad servers expect... virtually demand... good tips. Bad servers delude themselves into thinking they "deserve" good tips because of their crappy wages*.

Too many customers now either don't know what is appropriate to tip or they overcompensate to the point that some feel 20%+ is "minimum" even for bad service. 20%+?!? As a minimum? Think about that. It's absurd.**

Generally, the only people who say "it works" are those who rely on tips, and even then only because they know they get more overall with low wages and tips than they'd get with minimum wage and no tips. Even with that, they still whine about the odd person who stiffs them, and willfully ignore the bigger picture. It's a major clusterfluke for everybody else involved.

No, it doesn't really 'work'. To work, it has to work for both sides.

*- I believe minimum wage should prevail for even tipped employees, but that's another point for another post.
**-I often tip more than 20%, but it shouldn't be considered a minimum.


Most of these examples are also industries that have poor reputations for lying and deception. Sure, money motivates, especially when they know the likelihood of ever seeing you as a customer again, even if you are happy, is virtually zero.

I have no problem with paying them a minimum wage. I think everyone should make minimum wage. Why should an employer save on minimum wage because waitstaff gets tips? Doesn't make any sense at all. I made that clear on my first post to this thread.

I think it's important, though, that we don't think waiting tables is a minimum wage job...because it's not.
 
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