• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Wait staff, tipping, and Minimum Wage

Should Tipping be figured into a wait staff wage?

  • Yes, it is perfectly fine for wait staff to have a lower wage, they are making that up in tips.

    Votes: 14 30.4%

  • No, It is the job of the management to pay their employees accordingly.

    Votes: 16 34.8%

  • A combo of both.

    Votes: 10 21.7%

  • I need a beer and I don't care...

    Votes: 6 13.0%
  • Total voters
    46
I enjoy paying extra so that I get preferential treatment when I go out - and trust me you are remembered for one of two reasons in establishments you dine in. Either you are remembered as a good tipper and get preferential treatment, or you are remembered as a bad tipper and get placed on the back burner. The staff does communicate with one another, and they will give each other a heads up saying "take care of that guy" or "table such and such is cheap"

regardless of the wages the staff is paid, I will still pay extra for the special considerations that I do get at establishments I frequent.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That was not the assertion. The assertion was that financial rewards/penalties for superior/inferior customer service work. The better job that you do the more your pay is and the worse job that you do the less your pay is when commission or TIPS is part of your pay. Obviously, jobs not involving sales or customer service cannot use the commission/TIPS system. Performance reviews are often used in place of simple time of service to allocate pay raises/bonuses, but you probably knew that.
Click to expand...

I don't think any of that is really true, anywhere. Some people just do a better job because that is who they are, and others won't no matter the incentive. And many of the jobs I listed deal directly with people. Schools will tell you teachers are their sales force. And yes, there are performance reviews, but quality is rarely the result of those. It's a needed effort, but individual motivation is key.

However, the notion that a waitress won't wait on me well, or do his or her best unless I personally tip her is false, I think. If the establishment paid the value of the job, and there wasn't an expectation of being so rewarded, service would not vanish.
 
MaggieD said:
Tell me why you think they do. If you "spiff" a salesperson for each maintenance contract they sell, guess what? They suddenly start selling maintenance contracts. Offer a higher commission on a product a company wants to push? Guess what? They start selling more of that product.

If extra money didn't motivate people to work harder and smarter, there'd be no commissioned jobs.

I think any job that can be monetized in that way would improve performance. If you want your head chef to cut food costs, pay him 15% of what he save. If you watch your people on the packing line and they're working at 3/4-speed, offer a cash incentive for every package they produce over the norm.

I can't believe you don't understand this concept. If I had to take a WAG, I'd say you've worked in a lot of union shops.
Click to expand...

Oh, I understand it; I just don't think it works as well as many think. For the record, I've never worked for a union. I've work both for commission and not for commission, and no one can tell any difference in my work. I'm not sure I'd trust someone who only worked for extra.
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't think any of that is really true, anywhere. Some people just do a better job because that is who they are, and others won't no matter the incentive. And many of the jobs I listed deal directly with people. Schools will tell you teachers are their sales force. And yes, there are performance reviews, but quality is rarely the result of those. It's a needed effort, but individual motivation is key.

However, the notion that a waitress won't wait on me well, or do his or her best unless I personally tip her is false, I think. If the establishment paid the value of the job, and there wasn't an expectation of being so rewarded, service would not vanish.
Click to expand...

I just remembered you're a teacher. Of course you don't understand commission. Most teachers don't even think evaluations should be tied to their pay increases. That's the union mentality. "I get paid more every year I'm there." The seniority motivator.

I always valet my car. It's one of the perks I indulge in. Any time I see cars parked right at the curb by the valet service, when I pull up I offer $5 for the valet to do the same with mine. "$5 now and $5 when I come out." I rarely, if ever, wait for my car. It's sitting curbside when I come out. Why is that? $5 extra.

When I go to Vegas shows: "Does $20 buy me a seat in the first three rows center?" Yes, it probably does. Sometimes it takes $40. Money is for sharing. And when you share it appropriately with people who serve you? You find out how much nicer life can be.

Edit:

You're a teacher and you're not unionized?
 
Boo Radley said:
Do we really believe no one does a good job without these tricks? So, a teacher, a police officer, a construction worker, a cook, and truck driver, none of them, should ever be able to do a good job as no one tips them?
Click to expand...

What it ultimately boils down to is that for the management in restaurants the front of the house staff are viewed as salespeople. Tips are their commission. The service aspect adds another level to this because they are the face and the representation of the establishment. Selling themselves and their service to the guests generate long term income for the establishment in both repeat and new customers through word of mouth.

The waitstaff (and other tipped employees) like the system, and management/owners like the system. It works, and it is a form of commission, and in sales positions working on commission is the norm, and it is the motivator fro good performance. A few patrons may dislike the system, but it is highly unlikely it is going anywhere since both employer and employee are very content with how it works.
 
MaggieD said:
I just remembered you're a teacher. Of course you don't understand commission. Most teachers don't even think evaluations should be tied to their pay increases. That's the union mentality. "I get paid more every year I'm there." The seniority motivator.

I always valet my car. It's one of the perks I indulge in. Any time I see cars parked right at the curb by the valet service, when I pull up I offer $5 for the valet to do the same with mine. "$5 now and $5 when I come out." I rarely, if ever, wait for my car. It's sitting curbside when I come out. Why is that? $5 extra.

When I go to Vegas shows: "Does $20 buy me a seat in the first three rows center?" Yes, it probably does. Sometimes it takes $40. Money is for sharing. And when you share it appropriately with people who serve you? You find out how much nicer life can be.

Edit:

You're a teacher and you're not unionized?
Click to expand...

That's true. Money is a big motivating factor for sure. Since the other poster didn't answer my question, what is your opinion when restaurants include gratuity in the bill? This is usually the case when it's a large party, but I've still wondered how they can get away with that, not that I ever complained of course. :)
 
marduc said:
What it ultimately boils down to is that for the management in restaurants the front of the house staff are viewed as salespeople. Tips are their commission. The service aspect adds another level to this because they are the face and the representation of the establishment. Selling themselves and their service to the guests generate long term income for the establishment in both repeat and new customers through word of mouth.

The waitstaff (and other tipped employees) like the system, and management/owners like the system. It works, and it is a form of commission, and in sales positions working on commission is the norm, and it is the motivator fro good performance. A few patrons may dislike the system, but it is highly unlikely it is going anywhere since both employer and employee are very content with how it works.
Click to expand...

That's exactly right.
 
ChrisL said:
Tipping is so subjective though. Some people always tip good and some people never do, regardless of the quality of the service.

Also, if people are unhappy with the food, they sometimes won't leave a good tip. That's not really fair because the wait staff doesn't prepare the meals.

When I was waitressing, I only made like $3 an hour. Some places include gratuity in the bill. What do you think of that?
Click to expand...

While some people tip not based on service, most do. Included tips, usually only for large parties, are designed to protect the server from the morons that divide the bill without first adding in the tip.
 
While it has been decades, I remember there being a $2/hour tip credit.
I think at the time I would make about $6/hour in tips.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
While some people tip not based on service, most do. Included tips, usually only for large parties, are designed to protect the server from the morons that divide the bill without first adding in the tip.
Click to expand...

That's a good point.
 
ChrisL said:
That's true. Money is a big motivating factor for sure. Since the other poster didn't answer my question, what is your opinion when restaurants include gratuity in the bill? This is usually the case when it's a large party, but I've still wondered how they can get away with that, not that I ever complained of course. :)
Click to expand...

First of all, I think the reason they do it is because, if the check is being divided at the table in a large party, some people forget the tip. Either accidentally or on purpose. As long as it's clearly noted on the menu, I don't have a problem with large party 15% gratuities. If I don't think I got good service, I'm going to take it up with the manager anyway.

When we have girls' night out, we tell our waiter first-up that we intend to stay a while -- and that we're good tippers. We always get excellent service. (There are five of us.) Minimum tip is 25% on the bill. We just figure it out, adding the 25%, and everybody kicks in their share...even/steven. When I hear a table saying, "Well, you had two drinks; I only had one..." I feel really sorry for the waiter. He's probably going to get stiffed one way or another.

One thing I'd like to see -- when the waiter drops the check, I think they should remind the diners the gratuity is included in the bill. Too many people miss that on the menu, and then are offended -- or may not notice it and tip on top of it...only to realize later it happened and then feel ripped off.
 
MaggieD said:
I just remembered you're a teacher. Of course you don't understand commission. Most teachers don't even think evaluations should be tied to their pay increases. That's the union mentality. "I get paid more every year I'm there." The seniority motivator.

I always valet my car. It's one of the perks I indulge in. Any time I see cars parked right at the curb by the valet service, when I pull up I offer $5 for the valet to do the same with mine. "$5 now and $5 when I come out." I rarely, if ever, wait for my car. It's sitting curbside when I come out. Why is that? $5 extra.

When I go to Vegas shows: "Does $20 buy me a seat in the first three rows center?" Yes, it probably does. Sometimes it takes $40. Money is for sharing. And when you share it appropriately with people who serve you? You find out how much nicer life can be.

Edit:

You're a teacher and you're not unionized?
Click to expand...

Do you really believe teaching is all I've ever done? I've been a nurse (LPN), paramedic, truck driver (selling oxygen and supplies as manager of the local branch for the last year), security guard, waiter, and cook. And that doesn't include my time in the service. I came to teaching late in life. In all those jobs, I did my best regardless of method of payment.

And no, we do not have a union.
 
MaggieD said:
First of all, I think the reason they do it is because, if the check is being divided at the table in a large party, some people forget the tip. Either accidentally or on purpose. As long as it's clearly noted on the menu, I don't have a problem with large party 15% gratuities. If I don't think I got good service, I'm going to take it up with the manager anyway.

When we have girls' night out, we tell our waiter first-up that we intend to stay a while -- and that we're good tippers. We always get excellent service. (There are five of us.) Minimum tip is 25% on the bill. We just figure it out, adding the 25%, and everybody kicks in their share...even/steven. When I hear a table saying, "Well, you had two drinks; I only had one..." I feel really sorry for the waiter. He's probably going to get stiffed one way or another.

One thing I'd like to see -- when the waiter drops the check, I think they should remind the diners the gratuity is included in the bill. Too many people miss that on the menu, and then are offended -- or may not notice it and tip on top of it...only to realize later it happened and then feel ripped off.
Click to expand...

As long as you buy a lot of drinks and spend a lot of money, staying and partying isn't a problem. :mrgreen: I normally found that I would make more money in the restaurant section where people came and went and I had a lot of different customers as opposed to those who would hang out in the bar area all night, depending upon how much the bill came to of course.
 
I'm so glad I don't do that for a living anymore. :lol:
 
marduc said:
What it ultimately boils down to is that for the management in restaurants the front of the house staff are viewed as salespeople. Tips are their commission. The service aspect adds another level to this because they are the face and the representation of the establishment. Selling themselves and their service to the guests generate long term income for the establishment in both repeat and new customers through word of mouth.

The waitstaff (and other tipped employees) like the system, and management/owners like the system. It works, and it is a form of commission, and in sales positions working on commission is the norm, and it is the motivator fro good performance. A few patrons may dislike the system, but it is highly unlikely it is going anywhere since both employer and employee are very content with how it works.
Click to expand...

Oh, I don't believe it's going anywhere. I merely object to the notion that it is the only way to get good service.
 
Boo Radley said:
Oh, I don't believe it's going anywhere. I merely object to the notion that it is the only way to get good service.
Click to expand...

Object all that you want, but it is more than just a way to get good service, it is a way to get great service.

I use this to my benefit, and it is very common for me to get treatment well above and beyond what would be considered "good".
 
marduc said:
Object all that you want, but it is more than just a way to get good service, it is a way to get great service.

I use this to my benefit, and it is very common for me to get treatment well above and beyond what would be considered "good".
Click to expand...

I wonder? ;)
 
Chiefgator said:
So, the "living wage" thread and the "minimum wage" thread brought to mind an old annoyance...

I think it is absurd that Wait Staff has a different Minimum Wage.
I feel that tips should be extra, not expected.


If you have a great hostess, then the business owner should be the one paying her instead of me. We have become so accustomed to the Tip are Wages that we just go with it and pay the extra 20%. I am a heavy tipper as I know that is how they get paid. I have worked for "tips only", so I understand. BUT.... I feel it is the managers job to pay the staff accordingly, not the client.
Click to expand...

Move to Europe, that's how it works over there. Both systems work equally well.
 
ChrisL said:
I still made pretty good tips even though I wasn't the best or quickest waitress by any stretch. :mrgreen: Being personable and friendly goes a long way. I hated waitressing because you can't count on a set amount of money ever, so it makes budgeting very difficult, you are always rushing around, and I found that a lot of employers treat their waitstaff pretty shabby too.

Of note, in my experience, I found that a lot old people were the worst when it comes to tipping
Click to expand...
.
Click to expand...




That might be true of some 'old' people.

I'm 70-years old so I guess that some people would consider me 'old'.

I have always left fairly generous tips even when the service wasn't that great.
 
shrubnose said:
That might be true of some 'old' people.

I'm 70-years old so I guess that some people would consider me 'old'.

I have always left fairly generous tips even when the service wasn't that great.
Click to expand...

Oh sorry! :3oops: Certainly I didn't mean to include all seniors in that category. It just seems to be more common among that age group.

I can totally understand that some of them are on a fixed income and maybe can't afford much though.
 
Chiefgator said:
So, the "living wage" thread and the "minimum wage" thread brought to mind an old annoyance...

I think it is absurd that Wait Staff has a different Minimum Wage.
I feel that tips should be extra, not expected.


If you have a great hostess, then the business owner should be the one paying her instead of me. We have become so accustomed to the Tip are Wages that we just go with it and pay the extra 20%. I am a heavy tipper as I know that is how they get paid. I have worked for "tips only", so I understand. BUT.... I feel it is the managers job to pay the staff accordingly, not the client.
Click to expand...

I am always perplexed with people who have this attitude. What you don't realize is that you pay one way or the other. If we did away with Tips....you would pay 15% more for you food on the menu. Employers are not going to subsidize your meal. Despite your "heavy tipping", I generally find this type of thing as an excuse not to tip the waiter.
 
Yes, it is fine. Waiting on tables is not intended to be a career path. It's a means to assist in supporting oneself before a career or supplementing income during that career.
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't think any of that is really true, anywhere. Some people just do a better job because that is who they are, and others won't no matter the incentive. And many of the jobs I listed deal directly with people. Schools will tell you teachers are their sales force. And yes, there are performance reviews, but quality is rarely the result of those. It's a needed effort, but individual motivation is key.

However, the notion that a waitress won't wait on me well, or do his or her best unless I personally tip her is false, I think.
If the establishment paid the value of the job, and there wasn't an expectation of being so rewarded, service would not vanish
Click to expand...
.
Click to expand...




Some people will always do a good job and some people will always do a lousy job.

That is a fact of life.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom